The Tiger found me...

Vinreeb said:

So i left them alone for today and closed the shop. One more thing and i would just do something stupid.

Regards from gemany,
Thibaut

Click to expand...

Per your comment above, I would say you are wise beyond your years! I have wished many times I would have had the wisdom to do that.

As for the tie rod ends, they are probably somewhat rusted in the tapered steering arm hole after all these years. I would suggest trying to soak the area with some sort of penetrating oil for a day of so. Just in case it would do any good. Then I would give some really hard whacks to the steering arm tip where the tie rod fits into it. You want to hit the the steering arm part of the conection, not the tie rod part. It should pop apart.

There is also a tool we have over here that is called a pickle fork. It is like a two pronged wedge with a long handle. You drive the prongs in between the steering arm and the tie rod end. My success with such a tool is not all that great however. After all these years you are going to want to replace the tie rod ends any way so don't worry about ruining them. They are probably no good now anyway.

If worse comes to worst, you can always just remove the steering arms from the spindles (two bolts each side) and remove the entire assembly. Put it on a work table to work on later. You will probably have a hard time removing the tie rod ends from the rack as well so you will probably be going to a work table for that anyway.

Gene

Thanks for putting me in the right direction gene
So I managed to stripp the X-member from all parts...
I tried to measure out some of the critical distances between the shock towers

All only measured aproximately with a pull-push rule.
Nr1: 723mm
Nr2: 817mm
Nr3: 769mm

Can someone confirm these are right?

I Cleaned the x-member a little today, hope it will fit in the box for some sand blasting.
I plan on powder coating the whole front axle.

I have read somewhere tha it would be a good idea to weld on some reinforcements... what should these look like?

Regards from germany,
Thibaut

Spread Me

Vinreeb said:

Thanks for putting me in the right direction gene
So I managed to stripp the X-member from all parts...
I tried to measure out some of the critical distances between the shock towers

All only measured aproximately with a pull-push rule.
Nr1: 723mm
Nr2: 817mm
Nr3: 769mm

Can someone confirm these are right?

I Cleaned the x-member a little today, hope it will fit in the box for some sand blasting.
I plan on powder coating the whole front axle.

I have read somewhere tha it would be a good idea to weld on some reinforcements... what should these look like?

Regards from germany,
Thibaut

Click to expand...

To be accurate, on average, your towers are 11mm too close together. Establish a center line and devise a method for forcing the towers apart 11mm plus a couple of mm for contraction and hold the shape by any means you can while you re-weld the seams. There is a thread somewhere on these forums that show exterior weld methods but I can't recall where they would be. I normally add a plate just below the cut out area for the steering rack where the X-member is weakest. I can send you a photo in an e-mail if you PM me. Have fun . . . . .

Always a little more work than expected

Ok, so it is again time for some special tooling...

I guess i will build a stiff frame to bolt on where the x-member bolts to the body. with Plates facing the Shock towers an Screws on them to push the Towers outwards. I could pull the x-member up in the middle to hepl spreading.

Where does the frame really loose its dimensions? On the inner section where e steering rack mounts or on the shock towers?

Regards,
thibaut

still under construction

Hi guys,
its been some time since i last updated this resto-story...
not much has happened in may as there were some other things to do.
also I havent build the spreader for the x-member so this thing is still sleeping right now.
what i have done is letting the car settle upside down on some old tyres to take away the strain from the rotisserie. With the body beeing free of stress i started to cut up the rusty panels on the passender side. I dismanteled the Exhaust pass-through and made some new patterns from 3mm steel. will get 75mm capacity at the end when the tubes are welded in. Hope this is enough for some 2 1/4" exhaust.

This weekend I have bought some of the new panels... like the front vallence which is quite expensive... when holding it to the old, I realized, that the one on the car ist narrower by 5cm
Well, they did a good job while pulling the car by the vallence...
I ripped off what was left of the old vallence and had some hammer and dolly time... now it looks like the new vallence could fit, I somehow found 4 of the 5 cm

I have attached some pictures, so you can look at the mess in my garage








Regards,
Thibaut

I am still amazed at what you have undertaken with this project. You seem to be at a point similar to where Tiger Tamer started, or perhaps have yet to catchup to his starting point. The amount of unibody rebuilding to be done makes a guy like me with no metal working skills just shudder.

Hopefully, you will be able to get through all of this successfully. You are obviously a guy who enjoys a challenge! Thanks for the update, most of us are learning a lot as we get to see your work and progress. Please keep sharing it with us.

Gene

You are doing some great work on that poor Tiger. Keep us posted with pics and good luck with this adventure.

Well, to be honest, i dont really have any metal banging skills...
I just bought a couple of Hammers an dollies and read a short description of what has to be done on the net...
Me to I am learning big time from Mals Restauration.
I have to say, my Unibody may look worse from the starting point, but in reality it is in considerably better shape. For example i have no work to be expected under the Windscreen Frame.
At the Moment I have a Feeling, that I will have to look a bit closer to the front end of the Frame rails as by looking at the main underframe dimensions, they seem to be too close to each other

I will try to take some more Pictures of the front vallance and the Body Panels around this evening. perhaps some of you can tell me where the missing width of the body is hidden...

Regards,
Thibaut

Little update....
its simply too hot to get out & work on the car... and welding without protection is not a good idea.

So here is a little picture update on the exhaust pass throughs.... pipes are in, but not welded. Unfortunately i did not acheive the 75mm but only 70mm will be able to rais this a little to perhaps 73, as i will cut out the bottom of the tube before welding. dont want to have duble layer because of rust...




What do you think? how much clearence would i need for a perfomance engine exhaust?

I understand that one of the reasons for the rot-out at the exhaust pass- throughs was due to moisture (road splash, etc.) getting into the bottom of the passage and having no place to go. It used to be that people would drill a drain hole in the lowest part of the X member at the pass-through to address that problem. Be careful you are not creating the same problem. It was suggested on the Tiger's United site that welding the pass-through pipe to the x member would seal the whole thing against moisture, which was a good thing. Do not know if that is true are not. Obviously, coating the entire inside of the X frame as much as possible with anti-rust paint or coating would be a good idea while you have it open.

I got the impression it was a good idea to have the pass through liner extend a bit pass the the x member opening to recreate a bit of flange there, much like the original configuration. Adds a little structural stiffening, perhaps. Probably would make it easier to run a bead around as well.

Just some thoughts to stimulate discussion with people that know a lot more than me!

Gene

Rust issues

Hello Gene,
it is right, that the inner of the x-Frame collects a lot of dust, water and road grime via the openings of the pass troughs. this is the first reason why the tube is welded in.
The second reason is threngthening and adding torsional stiffnes to the frame at the opening.

But... the main reason for rust at the pass throughs is not the dirt in the X-Frame but a constructional fault with the pass through reinforcement.

In the Picture 2 Posts above you can see that the Frame was not cut out for the pass through, originaly there were just 2 holes in it, and the Reinforcement was welded over it.
The two panels created a deep gap... water came into that gap and rust was able to do its work. Blowing the two panels apart by about 1cm...

Today we know, that creating panelgaps that are able to soak water by capillar effect is asking for big trouble.

This is why i Keep doublelayers of metal as Little as possible. I am not shure if i can really coat the inner of the Xframe, what i will do for sure is putting in some inspection holes with grommets and flooding with fluid film.

My panel beater would prime all twin skin metal with weld through primer before welding the panels in. You are always going to get a little burn off around the weld but most will be sealed.

Mal

Do you have something like this available in Germany?

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-anti-rust-aerosol-with-ext-nozzle-amber.html

Maybe what you mentioned is the same, or better. I have not used the Eastwood product myself. They seem to have a generally good reputation here, albeit a bit expensive.

Gene

@ Mal: that weld through primer is a cool thing. I think i found a store nearby where i can buy it.

@ Gene: Your anty rust pretty much looks like the Fluid Film we use widely in germany, there also exists "Mike Sanders" which you have to boil to get it to a spraying viscosity.

Fluid film is basically lanolin (wool fat) its an oil that keeps creeping for years and into the smallest gaps, it works by sealing rust from the air.

I would love to seal the inner surfaces of the X-member with a primer before doing that... but i guess it would be utopic to think it doesn´t continue to rust under the primer. Also, i dont think i could reach all surfaces by the exhoust cut outs...

Just Curious

Kinda quiet out there; you still with us ??

still there

Hello
Jup still there... but the last weeks, nothing moved very far...
I tried to use one of the farm jacks to spread the crossmember. And killed the jack but the dimensions of the member didn´t move...
i guess i will have to give it to a professional with a hydraulik ram... or buy one myself.
Im still waiting for the lasercut parts for the rear exhaust pass throughs and the Spring hanger...

regards,
Thibaut

Dead Jack !!

Vinreeb said:

Hello
Jup still there... but the last weeks, nothing moved very far...
I tried to use one of the farm jacks to spread the crossmember. And killed the jack but the dimensions of the member didn´t move...
i guess i will have to give it to a professional with a hydraulik ram... or buy one myself.
Im still waiting for the lasercut parts for the rear exhaust pass throughs and the Spring hanger...

regards,
Thibaut

Click to expand...

Never been able to break one of those farm jacks; and we've tried very hard. There's a place in the cross member where the steering rack cut-outs are that you can slice out a wedge. The piece should spread much easier for you then. I can send a photo for your reference. rw

Hello Randy,
jup, i broke off the "push-pull-claw"... at least i can still use the jack for the Rotisserie and normal Lifting procedures...
I guess you mean i should take out the patches for the steering first before attempting to bend the member? Like for the lower A-arm reinfocement you showed me?

Thank you for all your input you are a great help for me

Thibaut

back to work

Hey guys,
It’s been quite some time since my last post… well summer time vacancies and so on…
Yesterday I managed to go back working on the car. This time I got everything I needed.
I bought myself a beautiful air saw… a very handy tool and much more comfortable than an angle grinder.
I decided to cut away and redo most of the X-rail from the beginning of the pass-through-patch to the spring hanger.








As you can see in the pictures, I have chosen thicker material for the whole Rail and will be adding an internal stiffening plate directly connected to the front spring hanger reinforcement.
When the whole thing is back together, I will possibly ad an additional stiffening plate between the rail and the hanger.
Any suggestions what i should do to make it even better?
Regards,
Thibaut

Look at the modtiger engineering website for the rear spring hanger and panhard rod bracing, they have PDF's with measured diagrams and also pictures to help: http://www.tigerengineering.net/