Front main oil seal...install from front or back?

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Duke Mk1a

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My front main oil seal is leaking. Looking at youtube videos on late model 302 timing cover installs. They drive the seal in from the front. My Sunbeam manual shows the seal driven in from the back.

I installed mine from the back and it is leaking. Now if the seal is designed to be mounted from the front, I understand why it is leaking.

So, what is correct?.....my gut tells me I need to install a new seal from the front.

It is such a PITA to do, I want to make sure it is correct this time.
 
Cal44

Cal44

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Duke,
Do you have a factory manual? I got no clue front or back. Local build shop to answer the question? If you want I can ask on the Boss 302 Registry. Those guys know everything. Just provide the year of engine and model.....Windsor, 302,289 etc

Mike
 
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Duke Mk1a

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Yea Bill,
That is the video that keyed me onto installing it from the front. A 302 cover will not work due to its depth and having to use a different water pump that has the radiator input on the wrong side.

Mike -

Have factory manual and it shows install from the back.

It is a 1991 5.0L HO block but has the 1965 timing cover so it works in the tiger. I have two more front seals. They are defiantly directional in way they are designed. Looks to me that the side with the spring needs to be on the inside.

I don't think that the cover matters, it is the seal that dictates the side it is installed. So that would mean that the original 1965 seal is different.
 
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Moondoggie

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Got ya on the 289 cover.....You need to install the seal so that the spring side
is on the inside of the engine. That spring helps keep pressure down on the
seal lip...If you have it backwards it will leak for sure.

Bill....
 
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Duke Mk1a

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Very annoying when you go by the manual using surgical precision installing everything on a engine stand only to be kicked in the nuts later.

So, the radiator, water pump, harmonic balancer, timing cover all need to come out. And that is hoping that I do not damage the $50 oil pan gasket I installed yesterday.

And.....not to mention the $40 worth of oil that I put in yesterday that is sure to get contaminated. I guess I could drain it first.

It's over 100 degrees in my garage too. I need a beer or six.
 
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Moondoggie

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I got to thinking about your leak while at Home Depot picking up
some plants. Could it be that the harmonic balancer you are using
is not compatible with the 65 289 cover and seal ??? You might just
have that sucker in there right but the shaft on the balancer is smaller !!!

It's about 66f here with a nice cool breeze coming off Point Lobos so I feel for
you, I am about 5/8 of a mile from the ocean. Surely you must have a stocked refrigerator in that garage of yours...Man caves need to be set up so you are independant from the main house & Wifey !!! I could hang out for a couple of months in mine .....

Bill in Carmel
 
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Duke Mk1a

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Moondoggie said:
I got to thinking about your leak while at Home Depot picking up some plants. Could it be that the harmonic balancer you are using
is not compatible with the 65 289 cover and seal ??? You might just
have that sucker in there right but the shaft on the balancer is smaller !!!l
Click to expand...

Nahhhh... the gasket set is for a 302. The seal is the correct size, just in backwards. Have two more in hand......just a butt-load of work to "slap" one in the correct way.

It is a slow leak BTW......no gusher. May wait till it gets cooler and just wipe the front of the oil pan after driving in the mean time.
 
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Duke Mk1a

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I am a duffas......I have to have the correct seal in the cover. The seal that is designed to be installed from the front will not install from the back. Racking my memory, I recall installing the correct seal (there were two different in the gasket kit) in the back of the cover. As you all have pointed out, the 289 cover will not allow a seal be installed from the front.

I was also careful to center the front seal on the balancer shaft before tightening any bolts on the cover.

So, who makes the best quality front seal......the Fel-pro is not working for me.
 
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Moondoggie

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Okay.......let's assume you now have the correct seal ( see Picture)
as you see it the top surface is what faces twords the front of the car.
These seals are pretty fail safe but every once in a while one will have a nick
on the sealing surface that can cause a leak and those can be caused by installation problems. You install these seals using a big socket that mates up with the solid portion of the seal and you drive it straight in with a ballpin
hammer or rubber dead blow hammer. It's very important that they go in straight and perpendicular to the balancer. There is even a tool made for this
purpose..... short of an installation problem,out of spec seal or mismatch between balancer shaft and seal surface....Fel pro should work just fine...
Are you using an after market balancer ???

Once you get the cover off and a new seal installed you should be able
to insert the balancer shaft to test the fit and it should be snug....did you
put some assembly lube on the current seal when you installed it ??? It could have overheated before any oil got to it on start up.....

Oil leaks drive me nuts too............

Bill
 
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Duke Mk1a

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Moondoggie said:
There is even a tool made for this
purpose..... short of an installation problem,out of spec seal or mismatch between balancer shaft and seal surface....Fel pro should work just fine...
Are you using an after market balancer ???

Once you get the cover off and a new seal installed you should be able
to insert the balancer shaft to test the fit and it should be snug....did you
put some assembly lube on the current seal when you installed it ??? It could have overheated before any oil got to it on start up.....

Oil leaks drive me nuts too............

Bill
Click to expand...

So, where do I get this tool.

Using this balancer (28oz external) - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-C4269/

SUM-C4269.jpg


Used high temp bearing grease on the shaft and the seal during assembly.
 
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Moondoggie

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Snapon tools made one but for some reason it's not available ???
If you know a snapon dealer or can catch a truck he should know what is the deal.


http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=11985&group_ID=1607

That balancer should work !!! Another thought comes to mind.....are there
a couple of studs on the block that locate the cover ??? Is it possible that the front cover is not centered on the crank, where the mains line bored for
some reason ???

Bill
 
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Duke Mk1a

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Moondoggie said:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=11985&group_ID=1607

That balancer should work !!! Another thought comes to mind.....are there
a couple of studs on the block that locate the cover ??? Is it possible that the front cover is not centered on the crank, where the mains line bored for
some reason ???

Bill
Click to expand...

I bet that AutoZone has something like that for a loaner.

Don't know about the mains. I can't remember if those locating dowels were still in the block, I think I pulled them as they would not work with the 289 cover. I made sure the seal was centered on the crank before tightening any bolts on the cover.

My error is probably pressing the seal into the cover. I did not use a socket but the end of a 1/4 drive extension and worked it in. I may just be damaged or cocked. I thought I had driven it flush with the cover but may not have.
 
65beam

65beam

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oil seal

duke,
it's still a british car. they don't leak oil, they're marking their territory.
 
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Moondoggie

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Duke Mk1a said:
Yea, yea...... My 59 Bugeye did not leak nor did my 67 B/GT. I refuse to have a new V8 leak. Ticks me off.
Click to expand...

I hear ya !!! The problem with a front seal leak is it sprays a very fine
mist of oil all over the front of the engine compartment..get's into
every tiny nook and cranny.........oh shoot....forget what I just said....:eek:
 
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Maliburevue

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Seal Alignment

Duke,

When installing the timing cover to the block, I leave the cover bolts loose, install the harmonic balancer on the crank, center the cover to the balancer, and then tighten the cover bolts. Having the timing cover even slighty off center relative to the damper will overcompress the seal on one side and decrease compression on the opposite side and create a potential for leakage. It will also wear the tighter side faster, too. I also grease the balancer seal surface prior to intallation to keep from wearing the seal at start up.

My 2 cents.

Gary
 
0neoffive

0neoffive

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Drip drip drip

As has been said many times; it's not an oil leak. The cat is simply marking it's territory. . . . . . .
 
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Duke Mk1a

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UPDATE -

Tore into it today. Oil pan is off, and everything else to get the timing cover off.

It seems that the only seal I got with my gasket set was for the timing cover that the seal was installed from the front. I, however, installed it from the back as that is the only way to install a seal with the 289 timing cover.

So, it was indeed installed backwards. I am amazed that it did not leak more than it did. Will be finished with the correction in the morning.

Thanks all for the advice and edumication on Ford V8 timing covers and the seals that accompany them.
 
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