Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
Series V water pump
- Thread starter Jimjordan2
- Start date
- Messages
- 4,147
Jim,
The alpine blocks have a habbit of build up of sediment in the rear coolant passages in the block and also casting sand. this leads to hot patches in the rear of the head but also more buildup of contaminated coolant.
Secondly the coolant will have an impact.. Was it a high glycol coolant ? The coolants with high temp resistance sometimes offer less protection against galvanic corrosion.
What i would worry about is if the pump has corroded like that is that the water passages in the head might have been corroded too.
The alpine blocks have a habbit of build up of sediment in the rear coolant passages in the block and also casting sand. this leads to hot patches in the rear of the head but also more buildup of contaminated coolant.
Secondly the coolant will have an impact.. Was it a high glycol coolant ? The coolants with high temp resistance sometimes offer less protection against galvanic corrosion.
What i would worry about is if the pump has corroded like that is that the water passages in the head might have been corroded too.
pump
The use of a preblended 50/50 conventional ethylene glycol coolant has rust and anti corrosion additives in the mix. Use of this coolant prevents problems like this. I've heard so many folks from warm climates that say the don't need to use anti freeze. They should use it to protect their aluminum heads and water pumps. It's not just an anti freeze.
The use of a preblended 50/50 conventional ethylene glycol coolant has rust and anti corrosion additives in the mix. Use of this coolant prevents problems like this. I've heard so many folks from warm climates that say the don't need to use anti freeze. They should use it to protect their aluminum heads and water pumps. It's not just an anti freeze.
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
I've been using a 50/50 premix, and I just can't tell you what brand I was using.
Right now, I've got O'Reilly's Universal Antifreeze/Coolant full strength. I mixed it 50/50.
My car normally runs in the 175-185 F. from an infrared gun
Guage is reading just a tad over the 85 C if there were lines maybe 87-88?
I had also removed the thermostat housing, and the head didn't look too bad. There was some corrosion, now the question is; what to use to remove and deter any further corrosion?
Right now, I've got O'Reilly's Universal Antifreeze/Coolant full strength. I mixed it 50/50.
My car normally runs in the 175-185 F. from an infrared gun
Guage is reading just a tad over the 85 C if there were lines maybe 87-88?
I had also removed the thermostat housing, and the head didn't look too bad. There was some corrosion, now the question is; what to use to remove and deter any further corrosion?
pump
I don't know how long you've owned the car but if you aren't the original owner then it's hard to know what coolant if any that previous owners have used. I've been involved in the Lube/coolant/etc. business longer than I want to admit but I've never seen a coolant additive that will clean out and repair previous corrosion but you can help prevent future corrosion by using a premix coolant which is blended with water that has had the minerals removed. Gosh only knows what is in the water you're using. Keep in mind that you need to change out coolant just as you do engine oil.
I don't know how long you've owned the car but if you aren't the original owner then it's hard to know what coolant if any that previous owners have used. I've been involved in the Lube/coolant/etc. business longer than I want to admit but I've never seen a coolant additive that will clean out and repair previous corrosion but you can help prevent future corrosion by using a premix coolant which is blended with water that has had the minerals removed. Gosh only knows what is in the water you're using. Keep in mind that you need to change out coolant just as you do engine oil.
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
Thanks Beam, just what I was thinking, I thought the coolant I removed was pretty dirty looking. Something to watch and change out. I rebuilt this engine, so there wasn't a bunch of crud. That was 5000 miles ago, so shouldn't have been too much problem, but obviously it is. May have to think about a distilled water or something or just use the premixed product in the future.
Off to Cars and Coffee, See ya all on the road.
Off to Cars and Coffee, See ya all on the road.
If the Alpine engine is grounded like a Tiger then it is more likely an electrolysis rather than coolant issue.
A 50/50 ethylene glycol mix is great as protection against freezing, it is not however the ideal mix ideal for cooling, given that straight water is better for heat transfer. As pointed out, water however will raise corrosion issues if not used with a corrosion inhibitor.
If max freeze protection is not your goal, and overheating is a concern, then I would suggest a lower concentration of antifreeze, and/or a modern coolant alternative. Since you do not have an overheating issue, then carry on with the 50% mix, as the added corrosion inhibitor is a bonous
I have a sacrificial anode in my aluminium rad to guard against electrolysis.
I started a thread on this a couple of years ago
A 50/50 ethylene glycol mix is great as protection against freezing, it is not however the ideal mix ideal for cooling, given that straight water is better for heat transfer. As pointed out, water however will raise corrosion issues if not used with a corrosion inhibitor.
If max freeze protection is not your goal, and overheating is a concern, then I would suggest a lower concentration of antifreeze, and/or a modern coolant alternative. Since you do not have an overheating issue, then carry on with the 50% mix, as the added corrosion inhibitor is a bonous
I have a sacrificial anode in my aluminium rad to guard against electrolysis.
I started a thread on this a couple of years ago
Link to Sacrificial Anode Thread
Here is a link to the sacrificial anode thread Hogshead referred to above.
http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=5307&highlight=sacrificial+anode
Here is a link to the sacrificial anode thread Hogshead referred to above.
http://www.catmbr.org/VB_forum/showthread.php?t=5307&highlight=sacrificial+anode
pump
Have you ever taken time to see what the base of alternative coolants is? You might be surprised.
Have you ever taken time to see what the base of alternative coolants is? You might be surprised.
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
Well, after making a big deal of my engine not overheating, I noticed Sunday when I came home from Channel Islands British car show my temp was up more than I normally run. Sure enough it was a bit low on water. No big problem right? Well, yesterday after a little longer and harder run, I noticed the temp was now going way past my comfort level, entering my WTH!!!!!
The radiator was down about 1/2 gallon. With nothing showing as far as leakage. My first thought was head gasket? No, not boiling over or anything, nothing coming out of my exhaust.
Then I noticed overspray on the drivers side inner fender, and some drips coming out of the Heater Valve. Yep, imagine under a load and high temp and pressure, that coolant was coming out much faster than a drip on the freeway.
That's my third valve, time to locate something different.
I sure do like the original look of the Sunbeam valve, and I've tried the Honda valve, but this is getting pretty bad. The big thing is finding a Push to open valve. Most of them are Pull to open. I've seen all the postings on MGB valves and earlier Sunbeam valves, not too excited about them either. Will let you know what I find.
The radiator was down about 1/2 gallon. With nothing showing as far as leakage. My first thought was head gasket? No, not boiling over or anything, nothing coming out of my exhaust.
Then I noticed overspray on the drivers side inner fender, and some drips coming out of the Heater Valve. Yep, imagine under a load and high temp and pressure, that coolant was coming out much faster than a drip on the freeway.
That's my third valve, time to locate something different.
I sure do like the original look of the Sunbeam valve, and I've tried the Honda valve, but this is getting pretty bad. The big thing is finding a Push to open valve. Most of them are Pull to open. I've seen all the postings on MGB valves and earlier Sunbeam valves, not too excited about them either. Will let you know what I find.
Attachments
Warren
Gold forum user
- Messages
- 3,872
New and improved
Is what kills me about the later valve. The earlier ones can be disassembled and cleaned out of crud. Last one aftermarket one I bought was a Murray, like A.M.F. their business model car parts bicycles, lawn mowers, what's not to trust with a company that branches out far at but least not into bowling balls.
It was a good valve though but fugly.
Is what kills me about the later valve. The earlier ones can be disassembled and cleaned out of crud. Last one aftermarket one I bought was a Murray, like A.M.F. their business model car parts bicycles, lawn mowers, what's not to trust with a company that branches out far at but least not into bowling balls.
It was a good valve though but fugly.
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
Interesting situation with dealing with the bad valves. I put a manual shut-off valve in line where the valve was, and my car is now actually running cooler than before. Pretty warm California day, and took about a 30 minute drive in the hills, and the gauge never got above about 80-82C. Normal running temp has been about 87-88C by gauge and temp. gun. Does that make sense? Right, not me either. But maybe????
- Messages
- 4,147
In theory with the heater valve open and a core the cooling system should have more cooling ability. An additional radiator ( the core) additional capacity.. The core +extra hosing and also a longer circulation path to allow the water more time to cool outside of the block...
Is it possible you were always leaking a little and hence the system was not fully sealed/ pressurised or perhaps the heater core is a bit blocked and restricting circulation?
Just thinking aloud
Is it possible you were always leaking a little and hence the system was not fully sealed/ pressurised or perhaps the heater core is a bit blocked and restricting circulation?
Just thinking aloud
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
Michael, yeah, about the way I was thinking. Certainly don't mind the unexpected cooler running car, but I guess the way to test it a bit more is to open the manual valve all the way and see what happens to the temp then. Will report back after my ride this morning.
(or maybe just magic?)
(or maybe just magic?)
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
Well, after about a 70 mile trip, up hills, down hills, freeway driving, street driving, stop and go driving, shutoff heater valve open, valve closed, this car just runs about 5C cooler than before I changed valves.
Gotta be something to do with radiator pressure? Only thing I can come up with.
Better colder than hot. (Not complaining) If it ain't broke.....
Fortunately here in So. California you don't need much of a heater. And I only drive with the top down, so I think it's fixed good enough for now.
I found a (push to turn on) heater valve that I'm going to look at, but after ordering it, I see it has 3/4 in. inlet and outlet. Way too big for our alpine hoses. Will need some reducing, but don't want it looking all clunky.
Gotta be something to do with radiator pressure? Only thing I can come up with.
Better colder than hot. (Not complaining) If it ain't broke.....
Fortunately here in So. California you don't need much of a heater. And I only drive with the top down, so I think it's fixed good enough for now.
I found a (push to turn on) heater valve that I'm going to look at, but after ordering it, I see it has 3/4 in. inlet and outlet. Way too big for our alpine hoses. Will need some reducing, but don't want it looking all clunky.
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
Continuing on, I used this heater valve and adapted it to the Alpine. I mentioned previously I've tried three of the "reproduction" heater valves, and each one failed, and this has been over a period of three years and at around $90-$100 each, kind of frustrating.
This is a push to "on" valve, so that worked out well. I've had to reroute the hose, but overall the function is good, and presents pretty well. Being a "ball" valve, I'm sure there's not going to be leakage, but only time will tell. Tried to bring the engine up to temp yesterday to check for leaks. And sure enough, I looked and there was a small drip going on. Not to worry, it wasn't the valve, or the hoses.
It was the fuel line dripping fuel right on the exhaust manifold. Sheesh!!!!!
Sure enough, it was the SAE J3057 hose, and it's only about two years old. So, that being said, I'm now convinced that the ethanol probably did do the job on this hose. I'm just assuming that you folks on the forum are correct about that.
We all know that the forum is never wrong. Right? Hehe.
But this time I believes.
This is a push to "on" valve, so that worked out well. I've had to reroute the hose, but overall the function is good, and presents pretty well. Being a "ball" valve, I'm sure there's not going to be leakage, but only time will tell. Tried to bring the engine up to temp yesterday to check for leaks. And sure enough, I looked and there was a small drip going on. Not to worry, it wasn't the valve, or the hoses.
It was the fuel line dripping fuel right on the exhaust manifold. Sheesh!!!!!
Sure enough, it was the SAE J3057 hose, and it's only about two years old. So, that being said, I'm now convinced that the ethanol probably did do the job on this hose. I'm just assuming that you folks on the forum are correct about that.
We all know that the forum is never wrong. Right? Hehe.
But this time I believes.
Attachments
Do you have a part number and application?
Jimjordan2
Bronze forum user
- Messages
- 34
I got this one from Car Quest/Advance Auto Parts, but I believe readily available through most suppliers.
4 Seasons #74678.
Remember this one is a Push to Open valve. Still looking for one with smaller nipples, but haven't located one that's Push to Open.
Oh, and by the way the bad fuel line was J30R7, not 57. Ended up getting the fuel injection multi fuel hose.
4 Seasons #74678.
Remember this one is a Push to Open valve. Still looking for one with smaller nipples, but haven't located one that's Push to Open.
Oh, and by the way the bad fuel line was J30R7, not 57. Ended up getting the fuel injection multi fuel hose.