The part number for the Tiger axle bearings is 14130X. Although Sunbeam Specialties and Classic Sunbeam have these on order, it appears they may no longer be available. The Timken 14130 bearings are the ones the companies in the UK are selling, based on photos of the bearings, that show the part number. Timken's website states the bearings are not interchangeable. The14130X are supposed to be a sturdier bearing and I've been told the 14130 units are ok for street use, but not if you are going to be racing, serious autocrossing, etc. Has anyone used the 14130 bearings? If so how have they performed. I have a complete set of parts to add a limited slip and replace the 3.73 gears with 3.31, with the exception of the axle bearings.
Tiger axle bearings
- Thread starter fjohn49
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Austin Healer
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The difference is in the angle of the taper. As long as the bearings and the races are matched, you will not have any issues. Typically bearings with an X suffix had to have a certain amount of clearance... Healey front wheel bearings are an example...
Do you know if the matching race is Timken Part #14276?
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According to a Bearing guy (from decades ago),
Bearings 14130, 14130X and 14131 only differ in the back side radius.
The 14130 has the largest radius (.140)
The 14131 has the smallest radius (.030)
The 14130X has a radius between the two.
The Tiger rear axle shaft has a radius and shoulder smaller than is suitable for a 14130.
However, a 14130 can be used SOME of the time IF the axle end play is reset accordingly.
The 14130 will go on the Tiger axle shaft farther than the 14130X, because of the bigger back radius.
A problem can be found when the ware on the ends of the axles and center spacer add up
to the point where, with a 14130, the bearing race is too far into the axle housing.
to use any shims.
The 14131 could be modified by changing the back side bearing radius.
Everything just goes together better with the correct parts...
DW
Bearings 14130, 14130X and 14131 only differ in the back side radius.
The 14130 has the largest radius (.140)
The 14131 has the smallest radius (.030)
The 14130X has a radius between the two.
The Tiger rear axle shaft has a radius and shoulder smaller than is suitable for a 14130.
However, a 14130 can be used SOME of the time IF the axle end play is reset accordingly.
The 14130 will go on the Tiger axle shaft farther than the 14130X, because of the bigger back radius.
A problem can be found when the ware on the ends of the axles and center spacer add up
to the point where, with a 14130, the bearing race is too far into the axle housing.
to use any shims.
The 14131 could be modified by changing the back side bearing radius.
Everything just goes together better with the correct parts...
DW
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Thanks for the reply, I'm still trying to find the correct bearing without any luck. Several places indicate they have them in stock, but then when you're ready to order, they are actually the 14310 bearing. Sunbeam Car Parts in the UK has photos of the bearing stamped Timken 14130 and the race stamped Timken 14276. Both bearings appear to have the same dimensions. I can't find the radius on the 14130X to compare the 2. Old listings I've found for the 14130X has the race listed as 14276, same as for the 14130.
How much do you want for two of the 14130x bearings. Do you also have the races for them and are the races the Timken 14276?
Austin Healer
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With Timken bearings the "X" signifies a bearing that has it's loading limited by the use of shims... These bearings are designed to have the securing nut torqued to a specified setting. Bearings without an "X" are commonly found on American cars for front wheel bearings. the kind where you tighten to get drag, and then back off 3/4 of a turn and slide a cotter pin into a castellated nut.
Front wheel bearings on a big Healey are the "X" type. there is an internal spacer between the inner and outer bearings. the loading is set with the bearings dry and shims are selected to fit between the spacer and outer bearing. when the desired loading is achieved, the bearings are greased and the retaining nut is then torqued to spec.
Non "X" type bearings can be fitted instead, then the retaining nut is set in the normal (American car) fashion.
It makes sense that the Dana axle would use an "X" type bearing as it is set up with shims...
Front wheel bearings on a big Healey are the "X" type. there is an internal spacer between the inner and outer bearings. the loading is set with the bearings dry and shims are selected to fit between the spacer and outer bearing. when the desired loading is achieved, the bearings are greased and the retaining nut is then torqued to spec.
Non "X" type bearings can be fitted instead, then the retaining nut is set in the normal (American car) fashion.
It makes sense that the Dana axle would use an "X" type bearing as it is set up with shims...
IvaTiger
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Sean
Is that the way you would set the front wheel bearings by having them greased then tighten to a drag then back off 3/4 of a turn , or have them greased and then tighten to .005 preload ? Thanks
Austin Healer
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For the Tiger and Alpine, I tighten them down to the point of noticeable drag (no pads in the rotors, or calipers off), back off to no drag and no noticeable end float. Cotter pin on the tight side of teh setting.
The bearings without shims need packed prior to setting end float. Use a grease that specifies for use on high speed wheel bearings. A muti purpose grease intended for chassis use does not tolerate high disc brake temps. Currently Ford specifies using a moly grease. Moly forms a sacrificial layer on the ball bearing that wears away before wear of the ball occurs. The manual says tighten the nut to 15 to 20 lbs. / ft. if using a torque wrench until you find drag of the hub and if using an end float guage back off the nut until you have end float of .002 to .007. You don't want to pack the center hub cap with grease.
Austin Healer
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a couple of comments... without a dial indicator you can only guess at the end float. .002 or 2 thou is about what the clearance is on rod or main bearings... basically imperceptible. As for tightening to 15-20lbs or "until you find drag of the hub" is exactly what I said. Even if you to used a dial indicator and backed up the nut to 2-7 thou, you'd be at the complete mercy of the castellated nut slot matching up to the hole for the cotter pin. These slots are 45 degrees apart... so any reading that you were able to get from a dial indicator would be rendered useless when you have to move the nut to line everything up.
My point was the proper grease to be used and how to properly use it and give the bearing the longest life. Many don't understand the reasons for not using a multi purpose chassis grease in place of a high temp grease when dealing with wheel bearings operating temps. I deal with this type of situations every day of the week. Much of what I see being done does contradict what books tell you should be done. I just mentioned what is written in the Rootes shop manual as far as how to do the repair. Just because it's written doesn't mean the dealer shop followed the manual. Over the years I've normally done the tighten until drag and back off the nut even though I do have things like dial indicators.
IvaTiger
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I have heard that a second cotter pin hole can be drilled to allow for 22 1/2 degrees options I am not sure of the tpi off the top of my head but at 20 tpi a 45degree rotation will give .006 movement and a 16 tpi will give.0078 movement that plus considering the thickness of the grease with heat breakdown makes things a shot in the dark as to keeping end float consistent. My thoughts are tighten to drag them back off to the next slot in the nut. Then drive the car in a variety of conditions and speed keep the hub caps off and check for any warming of the hubs Am I off base with this thinking ?
Since we're talking bearings does anyone know if the front wheel bearings, for a Tiger, were ever marketed under the brand name of Lucas?? If so, what were the part numbers? A friend who used to own a Tiger called the other day and said he was cleaning out his part shelves and found some new front wheel bearings. He said they were for a Tiger.
It's possible that a company can buy the rights to use the name Lucas or any other name on the products they sell. The reason I know this to be true is that I had one of our cars at the TE/AE United in Canada this past September and a friend drove it to the concorse. The car shut off when he turned into the road to the park. We tracked down the problem and found the rotor button had shorted out and the ignition was dead. The rotor that went bad was new and in a Lucas box when we built the car. The car has less than a 100 miles showing on it. Rick @ SS was there and we had a discussion about problems like this. I was told that companies buy the right to use a name and pack inferior parts made in China. How old are the bearings?
Austin Healer
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that's the correct way to set them up