HD thermostat
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Cal44
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I just installed a new thermostat (160). Still runs 180 on the road and 210 if I am at a stop light. I blocked off the horn holes..........it did nothing. My next will be the electric fan installed one inch away from the radiator.
And.........my way cool Kent Wilcox LAT hood, too get rid of the PITA hot air.
And.........my way cool Kent Wilcox LAT hood, too get rid of the PITA hot air.
cadreamn67
Platinum Forum Member
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Somewhere there is information posted about the proper operating temperature for small block Ford motors as determined by Ford engineers. It may be on the Tigers United website.
Anyway, the conclusion is that the motors operate best in the 190 to 205 degree F range. So the recommended thermostat really is the 180 or 185 degree F (whichever one it is that is in that range) for both summer and winter driving. Remember that the opening temperature rating is when it starts to open, not is fully open. Its another 10-15 degrees F from rated opening temp to fully open, or so I have read.
I put the higher temp thermostat in and I did noticed the motor seemed to like it better. Ran smoother, and seemed more responsive. Now I do not panic when the temp gauge reaches 200 degrees F, knowing that it is actually in the sweet spot zone, not getting to the danger zone. I know it is supposed to be there and it is good that it is there. As for over heating, as they say if it is not spitting out coolant, (with the overflow tank half full or so when cold) it is not over heating.
Also the higher temp thermostat seems to do a better job of managing the operating temp range. It actually seemed to keep the temps from going higher than the 160 F thermostat did, for reasons I do not understand.
I say give the higher temp thermostat a try and see if you get the same results I have gotten.
Cheers, Gene
PS: As I understand it, one of the worst things you can do is run the car without any thermostat. The thermostat serves as a flow restrictor of sort and that slows the water passing through the block. That is a good thing because it allows each unit volume of coolant to absorb more heat as it passes through the motor. Also, water is better than antifreeze mixtures. Although the antifreeze mixture has a higher boiling point, it is less efficient than water when it comes to absorbing heat. And with 13 pounds of pressure, you get a satisfactorily high boiling point with water alone. Whether water wetter or equivalent further helps seems a point of unresolved debate.
Anyway, the conclusion is that the motors operate best in the 190 to 205 degree F range. So the recommended thermostat really is the 180 or 185 degree F (whichever one it is that is in that range) for both summer and winter driving. Remember that the opening temperature rating is when it starts to open, not is fully open. Its another 10-15 degrees F from rated opening temp to fully open, or so I have read.
I put the higher temp thermostat in and I did noticed the motor seemed to like it better. Ran smoother, and seemed more responsive. Now I do not panic when the temp gauge reaches 200 degrees F, knowing that it is actually in the sweet spot zone, not getting to the danger zone. I know it is supposed to be there and it is good that it is there. As for over heating, as they say if it is not spitting out coolant, (with the overflow tank half full or so when cold) it is not over heating.
Also the higher temp thermostat seems to do a better job of managing the operating temp range. It actually seemed to keep the temps from going higher than the 160 F thermostat did, for reasons I do not understand.
I say give the higher temp thermostat a try and see if you get the same results I have gotten.
Cheers, Gene
PS: As I understand it, one of the worst things you can do is run the car without any thermostat. The thermostat serves as a flow restrictor of sort and that slows the water passing through the block. That is a good thing because it allows each unit volume of coolant to absorb more heat as it passes through the motor. Also, water is better than antifreeze mixtures. Although the antifreeze mixture has a higher boiling point, it is less efficient than water when it comes to absorbing heat. And with 13 pounds of pressure, you get a satisfactorily high boiling point with water alone. Whether water wetter or equivalent further helps seems a point of unresolved debate.
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After I recently put in a recon radiator (1 row more) plus had my expansion tank overhauled by a professional it normally doesn´t run any hotter than 205° in hot summer/standstill mode. In colder weather it runs around 180°. What I understand now is this would be still within normal operation range and no improvement can be expected by this thermostat. 
Thanks folks...
Thanks folks...
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Cooling History For Racing
The old circle track guys who helped this very young dummy in the 60's would manually defeat a 185 f. T-stat into the full open position. They explained that the restriction of the center passage was the important factor (language sanitized). Racing temps would consistantly remain 220 f.- ish, which ain't all that bad. The sneakers would still melt to the floor however.
The old circle track guys who helped this very young dummy in the 60's would manually defeat a 185 f. T-stat into the full open position. They explained that the restriction of the center passage was the important factor (language sanitized). Racing temps would consistantly remain 220 f.- ish, which ain't all that bad. The sneakers would still melt to the floor however.
cadreamn67
Platinum Forum Member
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Rick and Randy, special personal thanks to you both on this topic. My contribution was really mostly a compilation of info from elsewhere and a little seemingly relevant confirmation from personal experience. Still one always worries about unintentionally passing along incorrect information. Your greater direct experiences are especially helpful to us all.
I think inpart that when we feel heat coming through the firewall and get to feeling uncomfortable, we start to worry about the motor too even though it is quite okay. I am thinking some good thermal insulation under the carpet on the firewall and floor pans is a very good investment in just increasing the driving enjoyment factor. Like Mike, I am fortunate to have a LAT hood so that helps get the radiant head from the motor out of the engine bay and away for the passenger compartment. When my "new" motor goes in, I will have Jet Hot coated headers which should further reduce engine bay heat and consequently driving compartment temps. Better for the sneakers and one's own frame of mind.
Cheers, Gene
I think inpart that when we feel heat coming through the firewall and get to feeling uncomfortable, we start to worry about the motor too even though it is quite okay. I am thinking some good thermal insulation under the carpet on the firewall and floor pans is a very good investment in just increasing the driving enjoyment factor. Like Mike, I am fortunate to have a LAT hood so that helps get the radiant head from the motor out of the engine bay and away for the passenger compartment. When my "new" motor goes in, I will have Jet Hot coated headers which should further reduce engine bay heat and consequently driving compartment temps. Better for the sneakers and one's own frame of mind.
Cheers, Gene
Cooling a Tiger, one of my favorite subjects.
I've owned my Tiger for close to 10 years now. The first 2 years was a constant battle against over heating.
It started with a an old radiator and a blown head gasket. I won't bore you with all the twists and turns but at one point I had:
New 3 row brass radiator that Tom Hall and his son-in-law sell
Metal panel that blocks 10% of the radiator removed.
Horn holes blocked off
sheet metal inlet as described by Steve Laifman on the TU website
Pipe insulation tube blocking the gap between radiator and cross member.
Maverick Fan
Fairmont smaller diameter water pump pulley.
In short I had every cooling trick known to the Tiger community and my car would overheat when climbing steep grades. The faster I drove on the freeway, the higher my temp gauge would read.
I know that my dash gauge reads correctly within 3 degrees because I compared it to both an infrared gun reading the thermostat housing AND a thermocouple installed in the drivers side radiator tank.
The engine is a 260 with stock cam and heads. Car has headers, F4B manifold and Edelbrock 500 cfm 4 barrel carb.
I replaced the water pump with Edelbrocks High flow pump.
Overheating problems solved.
Temp gauge comes up to 190-195 and sits there. Freeway, hill climbing its sits there. At idle it will rise up to 200 and sit there.
One day I let the car idle in the garage on a 105 F day. After one hour the temp gauge was reading 205.
I keep hearing stories about how too much flow is bad for cooling. I only know two things.
1. a thermostat closes down to reduce flow and that keeps the temps up.
2. I increased the water flow in my car and ALL of my overheating problems turned OFF like a light switch.
I've owned my Tiger for close to 10 years now. The first 2 years was a constant battle against over heating.
It started with a an old radiator and a blown head gasket. I won't bore you with all the twists and turns but at one point I had:
New 3 row brass radiator that Tom Hall and his son-in-law sell
Metal panel that blocks 10% of the radiator removed.
Horn holes blocked off
sheet metal inlet as described by Steve Laifman on the TU website
Pipe insulation tube blocking the gap between radiator and cross member.
Maverick Fan
Fairmont smaller diameter water pump pulley.
In short I had every cooling trick known to the Tiger community and my car would overheat when climbing steep grades. The faster I drove on the freeway, the higher my temp gauge would read.
I know that my dash gauge reads correctly within 3 degrees because I compared it to both an infrared gun reading the thermostat housing AND a thermocouple installed in the drivers side radiator tank.
The engine is a 260 with stock cam and heads. Car has headers, F4B manifold and Edelbrock 500 cfm 4 barrel carb.
I replaced the water pump with Edelbrocks High flow pump.
Overheating problems solved.
Temp gauge comes up to 190-195 and sits there. Freeway, hill climbing its sits there. At idle it will rise up to 200 and sit there.
One day I let the car idle in the garage on a 105 F day. After one hour the temp gauge was reading 205.
I keep hearing stories about how too much flow is bad for cooling. I only know two things.
1. a thermostat closes down to reduce flow and that keeps the temps up.
2. I increased the water flow in my car and ALL of my overheating problems turned OFF like a light switch.
The comment about insulation on the floor to help with heat problems, I have just removed the origional floor coverings on my Mk1. It has a very thick heavy tar impregnated covering glued to the firewall, tunnel and floors. Under that was fibre in the lower channels of the floor giving a level area for the carpet (long gone). As I am cleaning 40 years+ of dirt, glue, paint & surface rust from that area, it also shows the assembly people were a bit rough welding and fitting the tunnel to the firewall and floors.
In my continual quest to solve the overheating issue I am thinking about the thermostat. Temperature rating aside, are all thermostats created equal?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bra-330-160
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wsn-557295/overview/make/ford
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bra-330-160
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wsn-557295/overview/make/ford
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There are many high tech Gimmicks available but my finding is that a new Radiator Core and complete pressure tightness of the cooling System cures the majority of all Tiger overheating issues. Especially the Expansion tank and the heater Matrix should be carefully examined for any coolant weeping. Also the antifreeze Plugs s hould be checked. Regarding the water flow I think there are 2 groups. One say high flow will improve Cooling while others incl. the literature will tell you no improvement can be expect considering the specific o f the Ford Smallblock Cooling Design...
Been there
This subject always generates or should I say re-generates speculation. I agree with all of what bernd is saying. As far as a t-stat, I've tried all the snake oil stuff and the odd ball tips over the years. My take: Engine calls for a 180F stat. Put in a 180 Stat. If you are running a high flow pump, you just want the one with the maximum opened area when it opens. Best I've found is a Stant from my local auto parts store. 2cents worth.
This subject always generates or should I say re-generates speculation. I agree with all of what bernd is saying. As far as a t-stat, I've tried all the snake oil stuff and the odd ball tips over the years. My take: Engine calls for a 180F stat. Put in a 180 Stat. If you are running a high flow pump, you just want the one with the maximum opened area when it opens. Best I've found is a Stant from my local auto parts store. 2cents worth.
minimum operating temp
I believe that 180f is the minimum operating temp. for efficiency. I've tried the 160 and, like Duke said, on a warm or hot day the temp will still go to 195-205. Trouble is, on a cool or cold day the engine will run on the stat at 160. This is too low of a temp. In cooler climes maybe a 195 is warranted but, I think 180 is pretty standard. One other issue is that thermostats are not all that precise. Some people put them in a pot and boil them to see when exactly they open. My own experience is that the 180 keeps it in the operating range on cool days. In hot weather, it will climb to 205 in traffic. Here in my neck of the woods, temps get to 100+ at times and, in traffic, 210 is not uncommon. I'd stick to the 180. I've also tried all the "high performance" stats out there and they are no different than a regular off the shelf part really. Their design is a little different but same results. YRMV Usually, and over heating problem is related to something other that the T-Stat. IMHO
By the way, I drill a 3/16" hole in the edge of the thermostat and locate it at 12 o'clock to release any air in the system upon start up.
I believe that 180f is the minimum operating temp. for efficiency. I've tried the 160 and, like Duke said, on a warm or hot day the temp will still go to 195-205. Trouble is, on a cool or cold day the engine will run on the stat at 160. This is too low of a temp. In cooler climes maybe a 195 is warranted but, I think 180 is pretty standard. One other issue is that thermostats are not all that precise. Some people put them in a pot and boil them to see when exactly they open. My own experience is that the 180 keeps it in the operating range on cool days. In hot weather, it will climb to 205 in traffic. Here in my neck of the woods, temps get to 100+ at times and, in traffic, 210 is not uncommon. I'd stick to the 180. I've also tried all the "high performance" stats out there and they are no different than a regular off the shelf part really. Their design is a little different but same results. YRMV Usually, and over heating problem is related to something other that the T-Stat. IMHO
By the way, I drill a 3/16" hole in the edge of the thermostat and locate it at 12 o'clock to release any air in the system upon start up.
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