1965 Tiger Mark I listed for sale at HEMMINGS

[RIX260]

VIN

B9471368

No relation to the seller.

Rick

https://www.hemmings.com/listing/19...utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_marketplace

 

[KenF]

I guess when the TAC program says they don't check for "Correct ID elements (VIN, JAL, etc.)," they ain't kidding. Only that it is a Jensen produced Tiger body, regardless of what tags are fastened to it. At least the owner is upfront about its history. It was also on the BarnFinds website a few years ago: https://barnfinds.com/1965-sunbeam-tiger-project-2/

Looks like a very nice car though, beautiful paint.

 

[Austin Healer]

10 foot pole

 

[Austin Healer]

JAL tag would indicate a MK1 body as does the Chassis tag. My eyes tell me that if it all started out as one body it's a transition bodied MK1a. I suppose it's possible to graft the sheetmetal of a Mk1a or series 5 Alpine to the back half of a mk1, but it'd be a lot more difficult to make the doors work as square cornered due to the differing construction of the sills and rear fenders.

In the video you can just make out the vinyl top cover/boot so definitely an early B382 transition body and not a Mk1 (except for the tags!)

 

[Klaus and Cary]

I hear a lot about the ledgers. After some limited googling, I'm not finding anything publicly available. Is there an online resource? I'd be interested to see what is shown for our car.

 

[theo_s]

I hear a lot about the ledgers. After some limited googling, I'm not finding anything publicly available. Is there an online resource? I'd be interested to see what is shown for our car.

See this thread for some info: link to thread . You should probably contact the Rootes Archive Trust to get info about the ledger contents for your particular car. The Book of Norman contains more or less the same information, along with current-at-publication details on the ownership of Tigers that were known to Norm.

 

[66TigerMK1A]

IN my 'folders' that I share as a joint project with Brian Glenn and Brian Nickel, there are a few instances of one body style with a VIN tag from either a different style body ( like MK1 tag with MK1a body) or the car I found yesterday that has a later MK1a VIN tag on an early 'crossover' MK1a chassis ! At least that owner knows the history, How about a TAC'd MKII with a Series II Alpine VIN and MK1a JAL ??

My opinion ( and we all have one ) is that I think that if a TAC inspection is done on a Tiger that has a MK1 VIN and the body has all the elements of a MK1a chassis, at least they should take note of it and inform the owner of that. The car at the top of this thread has that configuration and the TAC inspector wrote MK1 under the VIN on the Cert. which is totally false! Sad that the owner had to find that info the 'hard' way.

Until recently, I'd never seen a TAC cert with any 'notes' on it but just found this one which states that the VIN and JAL are 'not on chassis' so why couldn't they put a note about it being a 'different' chassis than the VIN tag displayed on the car?? Still a 'Tiger' ...

 

[Austin Healer]

IN my 'folders' that I share as a joint project with Brian Glenn and Brian Nickel, there are a few instances of one body style with a VIN tag from either a different style body ( like MK1 tag with MK1a body) or the car I found yesterday that has a later MK1a VIN tag on an early 'crossover' MK1a chassis ! At least that owner knows the history, How about a TAC'd MKII with a Series II VIN and MK1a JAL ??

My opinion ( and we all have one ) is that I think that if a TAC inspection is done on a Tiger that has a MK1 VIN and the body has all the elements of a MK1a chassis, at least they should take note of it and inform the owner of that. The car at the top of this thread has that configuration and the TAC inspector wrote MK1 under the VIN on the Cert. which is totally false! Sad that the owner had to find that info the 'hard' way.

Until recently, I'd never seen a TAC cert with any 'notes' on it but just found this one which states that the VIN and JAL are 'not on chassis' so why couldn't they put a note about it being a 'different' chassis than the VIN tag displayed on the car?? Still a 'Tiger' ...

View attachment 18609

As I have repeatedly said... a complete re-evaluation of the Tac certificate system needs to happen. This particular car is an example. I personally know of another person who was told he could not have a tac inspection as the tags were not attached to the car. He told them he'd walk across the street and buy rivets and screws if that's what it took....

You'd think Tom Hall would have higher standards... on a different note... I had the PP MK1a inspected and Tac'd by Larry Atkisson (mentioned prominently in the BoN) I supplied copies of the ledger, pictures (attached) showing the original rivets in the chassis tag. The car had it's original rear axle, lock and keys and I had the original valve covers with the original sticker. The engine was replaced with a slightly later 260 and the gearbox was also later than what would have been installed in the car originally. There was no JAL tag and the car never had one as it was a prototype. It does have a tag on the LH door denoting it's status as a preproduction prototype.

The car rec'd it's Tac and then I got an angry phone call from Tom Hall stating that the certificate should have never been issued. I presume this was due to a lack of a JAL number, but now seeing how other cars have been tac'd with incorrect or missing elements, I'm not so sure. Anyway, the Tac stood. The car was obviously what it purported to be and the various elements of the car showed that. It was also a car well known to Norm Miller (still active at that time). You can see from the photo of the vin tag that there are bits of the original Mediterranean blue color visible, just another confirmation that this car was what it purported to be. the entire process showed me just how political the TAC process can be....

 

[lockfish]

I guess when the TAC program says they don't check for "Correct ID elements (VIN, JAL, etc.)," they ain't kidding. Only that it is a Jensen produced Tiger body, regardless of what tags are fastened to it. At least the owner is upfront about its history. It was also on the BarnFinds website a few years ago: https://barnfinds.com/1965-sunbeam-tiger-project-2/

Looks like a very nice car though, beautiful paint.

Ken thanks for the nice comments about my car. It's refreshing to have it acknowleged as a nice car instead of being bashed by the so-called experts and haters. Thanks again, Chris

 

[Austin Healer]

Ken thanks for the nice comments about my car. It's refreshing to have it acknowleged as a nice car instead of being bashed by the so-called experts and haters. Thanks again, Chris

Wasn't trying to bash you or the car. That you are up front about the switching of vins is admirable... and the car is very good looking to be sure. It's just the wrong body for the chassis plate that's attached to it and it begs the question, what happened to the identity of the current shell that now has a Mk1 tag attached to it.

 

[unbeam]

The owner of Sports Car Salvage in Mount Holly, NC was quite a character. He raced a Tiger at one time. I went there several times, but he never was anxious to sell anything. Saw four Tigers there once, but most were primer and I wasn't really in the market. He had plans to restore them.... At that time he was in his 70s, and had had a heart transplant.
Sadly, the building and lot are empty, and I suppose most of the many cars there went for scrap.

 

[KenF]

Ken thanks for the nice comments about my car. It's refreshing to have it acknowleged as a nice car instead of being bashed by the so-called experts and haters. Thanks again, Chris

I've got to think that back in the late 70's, crazy stuff happened before, or as these cars became collectible, especially within those wrecking yard fences. Some of which unfortunately can't be undone now. It is what it is.

 

[michael-king]

On the VIN swap of tiger to tiger .. if it's old could be one of a couple of scenarios from 70s..

Someone's car is stolen and a different vin is added.

A car is rusted out .. someone buys another car cheap and swaps the vin off the wrecked/ rusted one to avoid sale tax/re registration.

90s and a little on..
Someone has a tiger shell without ID elements and has a rusted donor car...

 

[Austin Healer]

the axle and g'box numbers currently in the car would provide a key to it's identity if they are not correct for the tags...