Auction Results JAL 001 Tiger

[66TigerMK1A]

I have no problem with the fact it's the first shell from Pressed Steel but this is how the ad reads... don't see the word 'shell' How they wrote that would lead me to believe it was the first production model built which is a whole different thing!! Not that a used car salesman would ever try to mislead anyone

 

[Austin Healer]

I have no problem with the fact it's the first shell from Pressed Steel but this is how the ad reads... don't see the word 'shell' How they wrote that would lead me to believe it was the first production model built which is a whole different thing!! Not that a used car salesman would ever try to mislead anyone

View attachment 18916

attached is the ledger page for 9470047 Rota #1 Body 550001 (number 1) Also, from the Book of Norman B9470047/ JAL 550001 FIRST Pressed Steel body shell.

How do you define 1st? The first completed car, or the first body made. completed car=chicken, first body shell=egg

Who is to say that JAL 0001 was the first tag installed

on the first body down the assembly line?

More likely there was a box of 50 body tags

and the first one into the box was #1, at the

bottom, and the last one into the box was

#50 at the top.

And guess when they would get to #1 again?

DW

Not a box of 50 body tags, but a box of 50 chassis tags... that's why the chassis plates were supplied to Jensen not fully stamped. so that Jensen could fill them in as the cars were completed. The body tags were NEVER in the possession of Rootes OR Jensen. They were affixed by Pressed Steel when the shell was manufactured and prior to painting. If you pull of a JAL tag (on an original car), you'll find bare steel underneath it.

Is not the elephant in the room being overlooked?

I would not like to be in that room when the latest buyer of B9470047 LRXFE realises he does not possess the '1st Production Tiger'.

That accolade belongs to B9470011 - ROTA 1, completed on / around the 3rd June, weeks before #47 was. Bearing in mind the suffix LRXFE did not appear on VIN plates until B9470036.
Lovely that the car possesses the first body number - 550001; not 001JAL as the auction house hyped it, but that is all that may be claimed. The auction patter from the rostrum kept trying to avoid saying '1st production Tiger' (as per its sales material) but it kept bursting out! Amazing to me too, how parts of the classics media swallowed WWA's spiel without question..

I met with the long term owner in England several years ago and we covered this then. However, without hesitation or doubt he sold on a truly excellent example of the marque.

according to the ledger page I have posted here... ROTA #1 belongs to B9470047 Body #1, it is/was also assigned to chassis #11 Body #2 AND #13... body #4

 

[66TigerMK1A]

Everything you have said ( over and over) is true.
I’d still go with the chicken ( starting with #11 they were ALL chickens ) which would be the first completed car (by date) that rolled off the end of the Jensen line. Just my opinion and I know there are lots of those

 

[BillRo]

yes.. the brackets for the expansion tank were in the wrong place and had to be moved and there was an issue with the gearbox.

They did not say that... they stated that it was chassis #47 very clearly... They said it was the 1st production body shell... which is indisputable. I fail to understand why you are all trying to tear this car down. NO ONE has EVER stated it was the 1st Tiger. What they have said from the beginning is that it is the very 1st Pressed Steel shell built.... which it is..

This is mostly the reason that the owner decided to sell the car... the politics of the club and the refusal to admit that this is the 1st Pressed Steel shell so frustrated him that he decided to swear of all things Tiger club. Personally, I completely understand, and I don't blame him at all for being disillusioned. I owned a MK2 tricarb 2 seat Healey. An early example that was sent to Gibraltar... only 214 of these were ever made and my car was the only one sent to Gibraltar... I got so much push back, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence that I finally told the Healey guys to ____ off, sold the car and built a 100M Healey with a 13B Rotary engine just to needle them.

There can be ZERO doubt of the body number as it was fastened by Pressed Steel BEFORE the shell was painted. I have pointed out, ad naseum, that Jensen played fast and loose with the sequence that cars were assembled. The FACTS are that the chassis plates were supplied to Jensen incompletely stamped. The last one or two characters of the chassis number were not stamped.. That's why they are a different font. The engine number wasn't stamped either as Rootes had absolutely no control over what engine Jensen installed... Also the color codes were stamped by Jensen, as Rootes had no idea what each specific color the car was painted.

You can obsess over which car is numerically first based on chassis number, or which is first based on body number... Jensen had the same control issues with the Big Healey....

The bottom line is... this car is JAL 001... Making it the very first Pressed Steel body sent to Jensen... That Jensen ______ up and set it aside is immaterial... The first 10 cars (or maybe half of them) have SAL body numbers which indicate an Alpine shell and these were all AF experimental cars. B9470011 was a factory comp car so really cannot be desiganated as the 1st as it was NOT available to the public. so.... The supposed 1st customer car would be #12.... I wonder what body number it has... one thing is for certain, It's not #1

B94700012 was built with JAL 550004 body.

 

[michael-king]

Just my .02....

I think there are various issues being confused here.

Graham's issue is the auction house and Dennis Collins in his videos l claiming it as the first production car built.. as in finished.
*Clearly the car was not the first completed Tiger
Then there is the discussion of body v production.
*Nobody is denying that JAL00001 wasn't the first Tiger shell to be completed by PS.
... Small side note on DW comment about did they just have a box of the tags and grabbed what was to hand... While I could see that happening... it's probably the case that the #1 was the first shell completed.

Shaun mentioned first production car vs sold to public
* True the first cars went to the works program...but.. they were still the first cars to roll of the production line.
we know which was the first car off the line that went to public sale... Which wasn't #1 JAL...but... For me that's just the first batch of cars for sale... Which sold first....? We probably have the VIN of the first press and demonstrators...so which car was first sold?

I think everyone here is well meaning and mayne the discussion is getting diverted onto different paths..

nobody is questioning the linage of JAL00001 but the claim of it as the first production car....

the egg v chicken thing... Let's steer away from that analogy I think....way to loaded...

maybe a better analogy..

If 2 neighbours start build a house next to each other...one lays the foundations and starts ....then neighbour 2 does a month later.... Neighbour one stops for a few months due to supply issues... Neighbour 2 keeps going and finishes....
who has the first house ? I would say the one who completed it and had it ready for occupancy... The other guy started first...but didn't get it done first

 

[Austin Healer]

B94700012 was built with JAL 550004 body.

that's true and it was Rota #3

 

[Austin Healer]

Just my .02....

I think there are various issues being confused here.

Graham's issue is the auction house and Dennis Collins in his videos l claiming it as the first production car built.. as in finished.
*Clearly the car was not the first completed Tiger
Then there is the discussion of body v production.
*Nobody is denying that JAL00001 wasn't the first Tiger shell to be completed by PS.
... Small side note on DW comment about did they just have a box of the tags and grabbed what was to hand... While I could see that happening... it's probably the case that the #1 was the first shell completed.

Shaun mentioned first production car vs sold to public
* True the first cars went to the works program...but.. they were still the first cars to roll of the production line.
we know which was the first car off the line that went to public sale... Which wasn't #1 JAL...but... For me that's just the first batch of cars for sale... Which sold first....? We probably have the VIN of the first press and demonstrators...so which car was first sold?

I think everyone here is well meaning and mayne the discussion is getting diverted onto different paths..

nobody is questioning the linage of JAL00001 but the claim of it as the first production car....

the egg v chicken thing... Let's steer away from that analogy I think....way to loaded...

maybe a better analogy..

If 2 neighbours start build a house next to each other...one lays the foundations and starts ....then neighbour 2 does a month later.... Neighbour one stops for a few months due to supply issues... Neighbour 2 keeps going and finishes....
who has the first house ? I would say the one who completed it and had it ready for occupancy... The other guy started first...but didn't get it done first

I understand what you're saying... the Jensen ledger and the Rootes Heritage report state that the car (#47) is ROTA #1 and body #1. Three cars are listed as Rota #1. (1, 11, 13) The auction house CLEARLY listed the car as Chassis #47. The first 10 cars were SAL (Alpine) bodies, so in my opinion, are not purpose built (Pressed Steel) Tigers, but experimental/development cars. I suppose that the Rootes ROTA order could have encompassed the first 3 cars... Car #15 was listed as Rota #8 with a notation of (2) next to it. chassis #39 was also given a Rota 8 number. #12 was listed as Rota #3/body 12, as was chassis #18/body #10

If you look at the pic of it on the block, it's listed as body #1 and Rota #1. They didn't misrepresent the car. This is a matter of perception. Clearly there are divergent beliefs. If I had a car marked as body #1, no doubt I'd think that was the first... if you have chassis number 11, you'd no doubt think you had the first...

Jensen had/has a long record of building bodies out of sequence. Something I have observed over 40 plus years with the big Healey... There is plenty of disagreement in that car community as well!

 

[michael-king]

If you look at the pic of it on the block, it's listed as body #1 and Rota #1. They didn't misrepresent the car. This is a matter of perception.

I think you have missed what others were talking about... Hence my post earlier about many different discussions..

I agree with what you say re the photo of it on the block...but..

In the auction write-up, the Hemmings article and in the Dennis Collins YouTube and during the auction they say it's was the first production Tiger... No qualifications re the body.... I've attached the screen grab for you.