bracket for throttle return spring

[Austin Healer]

I have observed that there are 2 types of throttle return spring bracket... a short one and a taller one. Can anyone definitively tell me the change point and which one fits which car?

 

[HolyCat]

Looking at Rootes Parts Supplement for the Tigers, diagram in section DF and page DF2, it shows one throttle return spring bracket for the Mk I cars (which would include Mk IA) and a different one for the Mk II. It doesn't say which is the taller one, but I thought I remember reading that it was the Mk II that had a taller bracket. It does not indicate any change point within Mk I production.

 

[Warren]

They were both the same that I've seen. More than one guy has reproduced them too.

 

[Austin Healer]

Looking at Rootes Parts Supplement for the Tigers, diagram in section DF and page DF2, it shows one throttle return spring bracket for the Mk I cars (which would include Mk IA) and a different one for the Mk II. It doesn't say which is the taller one, but I thought I remember reading that it was the Mk II that had a taller bracket. It does not indicate any change point within Mk I production.

I have the taller one on my mk2 engine

 

[IvaTiger]

this is the throttle return bracket used for the mk1 the 3 slots allow for different tensions

 

[Austin Healer]

That is unlike anything I have ever seen on a Tiger... if you look at the one on the engine I supplied a pic of you will see what I mean. B9479975PPLRXFE (prototype Mk1A) had a similar bracket as my Mk2 engine but was only about 1/2 as tall. (picture attached below) The factory parts list shows Illustration DF63 (LHD) Rootes part # 1224854 and DF44 (RHD) same part #.

The illustration looks like the part pictured below. (in front of/to the left of the distributor) the picture below shows return spring bracket is the short variety...

 

[IvaTiger]

That is unlike anything I have ever seen on a Tiger... if you look at the one on the engine I supplied a pic of you will see what I mean. B9479975PPLRXFE (prototype Mk1A) had a similar bracket as my Mk2 engine but was only about 1/2 as tall. (picture attached below) The factory parts list shows Illustration DF63 (LHD) Rootes part # 1224854 and DF44 (RHD) same part #.

The illustration looks like the part pictured below. (in front of/to the left of the distributor) the picture below shows return spring bracket is the short variety...


View attachment 15586

If you look on page 148 of Book Of Norman you will see it about 1/8 inch lower than the base of the distributor. Guarantee you it is there

 

[IvaTiger]

Is there anyone with a stock Tiger or BON out there who can back up the use of this bracket ?

 

[Warren]

I've seen that picture someplace but as we say the bitter end or the furthest away is a simple piece. Bill M. and Steve A. had repops available at United. We just looked over several stock cars including that 39 MK2. A couple winners have commented elsewhere today. Hopefully they will chime in.

 

[rfraser]

That odd looking bracket above and on pg. 148 of TBON is a Ford Part, C2OZ-9741-B. Many times, that Ford part was left on the Tiger engine under center bolt of valve cover.
1224854 - Bracket listed for MK I - short - no drawing date listed
1229919 - Bracket listed for MK II - long - this drawing has a 11/24/64 date

This date could put the long bracket in the L2KA engine group but I doubt that very much. The short bracket was ordered in quantity which needs to be used up. The 2nd bracket needs cost evaluated; tooling ordered, then part cut in; that takes time. There is no indication of the cut in date or Vin # cut in.

My F21KA engine has the longer bracket and I know 1 L2KA engine that has the short bracket and that Ford Part. I have pictures of the short bracket on S6KA and S27KA engines.

rfraser@bluefrog.com
Tiger engine Survey online -Tiger Engine Study - TigersEast AlpinesEast (teae.org)

 

[Austin Healer]

That odd looking bracket above and on pg. 148 of TBON is a Ford Part, C2OZ-9741-B. Many times, that Ford part was left on the Tiger engine under center bolt of valve cover.
1224854 - Bracket listed for MK I - short - no drawing date listed
1229919 - Bracket listed for MK II - long - this drawing has a 11/24/64 date

This date could put the long bracket in the L2KA engine group but I doubt that very much. The short bracket was ordered in quantity which needs to be used up. The 2nd bracket needs cost evaluated; tooling ordered, then part cut in; that takes time. There is no indication of the cut in date or Vin # cut in.

My F21KA engine has the longer bracket and I know 1 L2KA engine that has the short bracket and that Ford Part. I have pictures of the short bracket on S6KA and S27KA engines.

rfraser@bluefrog.com
Tiger engine Survey online -Tiger Engine Study - TigersEast AlpinesEast (teae.org)

My Mk2 is an A11KK engine group, but looking at the ledgers, the A22KK and A11KK were intermixed from the beginning to end of the Mk2 production. In fact from car 440 to car 473 the A11KK engine was used 28 times and the A22KK was used 6 times. The A22KK engines are scattered throughout the entire group.

The blue car (prototype Mk1A) that I provided a pic of with the short bracket was in the F21KA engine group (July 65) engine number 4633, so maybe the long bracket was introduced from the start of the Mk1A run...

 

[rfraser]

All the engine groups have mostly random order of install by engine number. I attribute this to the numerous times the engines were loaded and unloaded from the Cleveland Foundry to the Humber plant in England. The Humber plant is where the Ford Special Order engines were transformed into the Tiger Specific engines and then shipped to the Jensen Plant. I believe the A11KK and A22KK engine groups were shipped together from Ford and thus the loading and unloading of these engine groups created their random order in the MK II build.

Your Tiger has a Jensen Date of July 65 and my Tiger has a Jensen Date of Aug 65. This seems to indicate that the longer bracket 1229919 was cut in within this time period. Again, the exact date and Vin # is difficult to determine. Owners would have to chime in and indicate which bracket was installed on their Tiger for these last B947 series and early B382 series Tigers.

 

[Austin Healer]

All the engine groups have mostly random order of install by engine number. I attribute this to the numerous times the engines were loaded and unloaded from the Cleveland Foundry to the Humber plant in England. The Humber plant is where the Ford Special Order engines were transformed into the Tiger Specific engines and then shipped to the Jensen Plant. I believe the A11KK and A22KK engine groups were shipped together from Ford and thus the loading and unloading of these engine groups created their random order in the MK II build.

Your Tiger has a Jensen Date of July 65 and my Tiger has a Jensen Date of Aug 65. This seems to indicate that the longer bracket 1229919 was cut in within this time period. Again, the exact date and Vin # is difficult to determine. Owners would have to chime in and indicate which bracket was installed on their Tiger for these last B947 series and early B382 series Tigers.

I agree... it's unfortunate that the Rootes parts books aren't more detailed. In the BMC parts books you will often see W.S.E. (when stock exhausted) when there isn't a definite chassis number change point, and even those are wrong!

 

[tiger430]

Were both the tall and short brackets unique to Tigers? or were they also used on Fords?
thanks

 

[rfraser]

The tall and short brackets are unique to the Tiger engine, they both have only Rootes part numbers.
They are just a sheet metal formed parts and easy to replicate.
Contact me @ rfraser@bluefrog.com if you have any questions.

 

[michael-king]

Were both the tall and short brackets unique to Tigers? or were they also used on Fords?
thanks

Tiger specific to do with the throttle cable came from on the cars. Im not sure if RHD cars used the same brackets? They used a mechanical linkage and could have had a different return spring setup...
Any UK or AU members with stock RHD cars know off hand?

 

[rfraser]

I can only state what is listed in the Parts List, section DF which shows a diagram of LHD & RHD carb control parts.
1224854 - Bracket listed for MK I - short - 1.60" high
1229919 - Bracket listed for MK II - long - 3.53" high
1224891 - Spring
No RHD specific part numbers listed for any of these 3 parts.
When the 1229919 bracket was cut in is not known - my F21KA engine has the 1229919 bracket.

 

[michael-king]

Thanks Ron 👍

I can only state what is listed in the Parts List, section DF which shows a diagram of LHD & RHD carb control parts.
1224854 - Bracket listed for MK I - short - 1.60" high
1229919 - Bracket listed for MK II - long - 3.53" high
1224891 - Spring
No RHD specific part numbers listed for any of these 3 parts.
When the 1229919 bracket was cut in is not known - my F21KA engine has the 1229919 bracket.