brake rotor question

Austin Healer

Austin Healer

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In the past Dale A. sold a kit to fit vented rotors using the original Type 16 Girling calipers. The calipers were modified by placing spacers between the caliper halves to make room for the rotors. What was the original application for the rotor?? Does anyone out there know? I just had a car come in with this kit fitted. I realize that it's not as "hot dog" as the Wilwood kit, but, it does have the plus of being able to be used with the original 13" wheels!
 
at the beach

at the beach

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I don't have any idea what Dale sold but it sounds like the vented Toyota (Celica?) rotors we used to use.
Its hub was about an eighth larger than the Tiger's so we machined circular rings out of mild steel to fit between them. Then we spread the calipers by inserting (mild steel) spacers. I made my own but spacers for the Girling 16p calipers have been widely available for decades. (I needed longer bolts - McMaster Carr)
Give me a few days and I'll see if I can dig up some specifics.
Buck
 
0neoffive

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at the beach said:
I don't have any idea what Dale sold but it sounds like the vented Toyota (Celica?) rotors we used to use.
Its hub was about an eighth larger than the Tiger's so we machined circular rings out of mild steel to fit between them. Then we spread the calipers by inserting (mild steel) spacers. I made my own but spacers for the Girling 16p calipers have been widely available for decades. (I needed longer bolts - McMaster Carr)
Give me a few days and I'll see if I can dig up some specifics.
Buck
Click to expand...
OK guys: What was the spacer width and what addressed the transport seal? I wanna see one . . . . . .
 
Austin Healer

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0neoffive said:
OK guys: What was the spacer width and what addressed the transport seal? I wanna see one . . . . . .
Click to expand...
There is a RH and LH spacer for fluid port side of the caliper. Each has a recess like the caliper half for an additional transfer port seal. The lower spacers are the same right or left. The spacers appear to be aluminum in this kit. Mercedes did the exact same thing on the Girling type 17-3 calipers used on the 230SL. The spacers are about 1/4" wide. I'll take a picture later today. The extra width of the rotor requires that the brake dust shield be removed.
at the beach said:
I don't have any idea what Dale sold but it sounds like the vented Toyota (Celica?) rotors we used to use.
Its hub was about an eighth larger than the Tiger's so we machined circular rings out of mild steel to fit between them. Then we spread the calipers by inserting (mild steel) spacers. I made my own but spacers for the Girling 16p calipers have been widely available for decades. (I needed longer bolts - McMaster Carr)
Give me a few days and I'll see if I can dig up some specifics.
Buck
Click to expand...

There doesn't appear to be a spacer between the hub and rotor, but I'll have a closer look.
 
Austin Healer

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Buck was correct.. spacers are steel. 3/16" thick. No machined adapter between rotor and hub. Rotor is marked BB 3183 min 16mm thickness 050102. I did find a reference on line that this was a Dale's kit with a link to a website that is no longer accessible. Longer pins for the pads will be required along with longer caliper bolts and a 2nd set of transfer port seals.


P4151926.JPG
 
0neoffive

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Neat lookin’ critter. Lack of backing plate won’t matter for a fair weather car.
 
michael-king

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Austin Healer

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Hoghead said:
I could machine these bits easily, but it looks like only about 35 GBP to find a P16 spacer kit, so no point.
https://kelvedonlotus.co.uk/product/caliper-spacer-kit-p16-m16/

No increase in brake torque, although the rotor availability should be better, and a wider, vented rotor
Click to expand...
No improvement other than better heat dissipation, so shouldn't have brake fade under repeated hard braking.... Much lower chance of warping the rotors too! Pad wear might be higher due to the lack of the dust shield. When the 3000 Healey first came out with its new disc brakes, they didn't have dust shields. The factory soon noted excessive pad wear and fitted them on later cars.
 
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65beam

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Austin Healer said:
No improvement other than better heat dissipation, so shouldn't have brake fade under repeated hard braking.... Much lower chance of warping the rotors too! Pad wear might be higher due to the lack of the dust shield. When the 3000 Healey first came out with its new disc brakes, they didn't have dust shields. The factory soon noted excessive pad wear and fitted them on later cars.
Click to expand...
Early series 1 Alpines didn't have the shield but premature brake wear brought on the shields.
 
H

Hoghead

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With the 18mm Nissan rotor, will the late 80's Toyota 4 Runner callipers fit, rather than fiddle about with calliper spacers?
Is the Tiger calliper mount 3.5 or 3.25"?

Toyota is a 88mm (3.5") bolt centre on the calliper, but being metric, will require the 1974 TR-6 shoulder bolts and a AN3 to M10 x 1 adapter.
A 26% in piston area for greater brake torque, and a vented rotor is a good thing

I vaguely remember The Toyota calliper was discussed in the 90's but I do not know it it fits the 13" wheels?
IF it works, there must be a valid reason why Dale chose the spacer method - changing the MC and/or the 13" wheels perhaps
 
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michael-king

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Hoghead said:
With the 18mm Nissan rotor, will the late 80's Toyota 4 Runner callipers fit, rather than fiddle about with calliper spacers?
Is the Tiger calliper mount 3.5 or 3.25"?

Toyota is a 88mm (3.5") bolt centre on the calliper, but being metric, will require the 1974 TR-6 shoulder bolts and a AN3 to M10 x 1 adapter.
A 26% in piston area for greater brake torque, and a vented rotor is a good thing

I vaguely remember The Toyota calliper was discussed in the 90's but I do not know it it fits the 13" wheels?
IF it works, there must be a valid reason why Dale chose the spacer method - changing the MC and/or the 13" wheels perhaps
Click to expand...
There used to be Volvo ( iirc) calipers that worked . Something like mi16 as a part... Was a mod on the SAOCA forum in the mid 00s
 
H

Hoghead

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the M16 is the metric version of our P16, differing in bolts, bleeder thread, and hydraulic connection. It can be made to work, but I see no point
The calliper spacer kit apparently fits both P16 and M16 according to the supplier, but I am not convinced that the pin OD is the same
 
Austin Healer

Austin Healer

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Hoghead said:
With the 18mm Nissan rotor, will the late 80's Toyota 4 Runner callipers fit, rather than fiddle about with calliper spacers?
Is the Tiger calliper mount 3.5 or 3.25"?

Toyota is a 88mm (3.5") bolt centre on the calliper, but being metric, will require the 1974 TR-6 shoulder bolts and a AN3 to M10 x 1 adapter.
A 26% in piston area for greater brake torque, and a vented rotor is a good thing

I vaguely remember The Toyota calliper was discussed in the 90's but I do not know it it fits the 13" wheels?
IF it works, there must be a valid reason why Dale chose the spacer method - changing the MC and/or the 13" wheels perhaps
Click to expand...
Caliper mounting ear spacing is wrong on the Toyota calipers.. The Toyota used the same spacing as the TR4-6 and big Healey
 
Austin Healer

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65beam said:
Early series 1 Alpines didn't have the shield but premature brake wear brought on the shields.
Click to expand...
Both the series 1 Alpine and Healey 3000 were introduced in '59. No doubt both manufacturers realized the pad wear issue, or perhaps Girling recommended it.
 
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Hoghead

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Austin Healer said:
Caliper mounting ear spacing is wrong on the Toyota calipers.. The Toyota used the same spacing as the TR4-6 and big Healey
Click to expand...
Now I am really confused, which BTW is not that unusual...........Does my BJ8-Ph2 not have the same P16's as my Tiger?

Are the Tigers 3.25 and BJ8 Big Healey 3.25?
Are pre BJ8 and early Alpine callipers 3.5 mount?

Now the calliper spacer is making more sense
 
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