automobile brake lesson

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skylerbritish55

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I'm not a very good mechanic, but I'm trying to learn. Any automobile that I've owned, I've never replaced the pads and shoes myself. I was wondering if anyone in the Los Angeles area would be interested in giving me a lesson. I could bring the car and parts to your house and watch you work on one front and one rear wheel, then you could watch me work on the other front and rear wheel, or you could just tell me what to do and I'll take care of everything. Is there anyone who can assist me with this? Please send me a personal message.....
 
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skylerbritish55 said:
I'm not a very good mechanic, but I'm trying to learn. Any automobile munchkin that I've owned, I've never replaced the pads and shoes myself. I was wondering if anyone in the Los Angeles area would be interested in giving me a lesson. I could bring the car and parts to your house and watch you work on one front and one rear wheel, then you could watch me work on the other front and rear wheel, or you could just tell me what to do and I'll take care of everything. Is there anyone who can assist me with this? Please send me a personal message.....
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I will do your brakes if you will install my engine and transmission when the rebuild is finished. Iā€™ll even cook us a couple of burgers while I watch šŸ˜Š
 
On a Tiger ? What's up with the link for cats?

But if you're serious there's some really easy books that you can look at. John Muir wrote a VW book and lots carries over, except for the air-cooled part. Most of the guys want to charge more if you watch or even more if you help.
But realistically when you're doing your brakes you take it part one-side at a time, just so you can see how it came apart on the other side. On my Civic Si front brakes are like changing light bulbs so easy . Not so much on a Tiger. An Austin Healey club buddy of mine may entertain a lesson and at last conversation with him, he also had space to sublet for parking.
 
It's really very simple.. as far as the front brakes... buy new rotors... it's false economy to try and have them surfaced. Besides they are ridiculously cheap. The pad replacement is equally simple. The front and rear brakes are the same as Triumph TR4a and the parts are very inexpensive. I buy them from Moss Motors as it's quite a bit cheaper than anywhere else. As for the rears... buy new shoes and cylinders if you need them from moss, and do one side at a time. If you don't have a Tiger shop manual, buy one. If you want, I can give you all of the Moss part numbers... the only unique thing about the Tiger rear brakes are wheel cylinder retaining clips which are the same as the series 3/4 and late series 5 Alpine clips...

Rebuilding the type 16 calipers is a doddle... I buy the stainless pistons and rubber parts from Moss as they are the same as the Big Healey and TR4-TR6... it takes about an hour to rebuild each side (including bead blasting the caliper bodies)... everything about the rear brakes is identical to the TR4a...
 
skylerbritish55 said:
Thanks Guys @Tony Butler we can make that work
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Stuck caliper pistons can be removed quite simply by drilling a hole in teh center of the piston and tapping it to either 5/16-24TPI or #/8 fine. insert bolt and using a rachet, simply forcer the piston out of the bore...

C\caliper halves always need to be separated.. The square cut o-rings are available from Sunbeam Specialties. as teh caliper pistons ride on the internal seals, the condition of the bores does NOT matter. make sure you completely bead blast each caliper half and then thoroughly clean any bead blasting material from them. inspect the seal grooves and make sure there is no residue in either the dust seal groove, or the opperating seal groove, otherwise assy will be very difficult. wipe both the dust seal rubber and the operating seal o-ring with clean brake fluid and rock the new piston through the dust seal making sure that is hasn't come out of its groove in the caliper half. the piston can then be pushed home through the operating o-ring. if there is substantial resistance, there is crap in the groove under the seal.

if you are unsure of your abilities, i'd be happy to rebuild them for you... Done 100's over the last 40 years!
 
Austin Healer said:
Stuck caliper pistons can be removed quite simply by drilling a hole in teh center of the piston and tapping it to either 5/16-24TPI or #/8 fine. insert bolt and using a rachet, simply forcer the piston out of the bore...
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If you don't have taps just go to your local parts store and buy an adapter to install a grease fitting in the opening for the bleed screw and force out the piston using a grease gun.
 
65beam said:
If you don't have taps just go to your local parts store and buy an adapter to install a grease fitting in the opening for the bleed screw and force out the piston using a grease gun.
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yes, you can do that way, and it does work. However, I like to avoid all the grease contamination.... I have never had a caliper piston that wouldn't come out with the method I describe, and there isn't a bunch of grease goo to clean up after the fact.. Taps are stupid cheap, and it's likely that you will need them again in the restoration process....

As I restore Brit cars (and bikes) for my profession, I have all of the taps and dies required. SAE/UNF, UNC, BSF, Whitworth, BSS and BSB, CEI and Metric... and the odd BA fastener as well!
 
Austin Healer said:
yes, you can do that way, and it does work. However, I like to avoid all the grease contamination.... I have never had a caliper piston that wouldn't come out with the method I describe, and there isn't a bunch of grease goo to clean up after the fact.. Taps are stupid cheap, and it's likely that you will need them again in the restoration process....

As I restore Brit cars (and bikes) for my profession, I have all of the taps and dies required. SAE/UNF, UNC, BSF, Whitworth, BSS and BSB, CEI and Metric... and the odd BA fastener as well!
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Lubrication tends to allow for easier removal of any part. There are other ways to remove the pistons. Some use air pressure. It's a matter of what works for you may not be what others are comfortable with. FYI, many British car owners have always used Castrol LMA brake fluid so I would suggest that if you want to continue using it buy what you can because Castrol dropped it from their line of products several months back.
 
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when air won't work, this is my go to method.. sometimes difficult to find a grease fitting with a 3/8-24 TPI thread...

good tip about the Castrol, I was not aware it was going away
 
Before you apply air use a piece of wood in between the piston giving room for the weakest side to move out- apply a little clamping to those and work the other side- never has failed me yet-
 
Austin Healer said:
..

good tip about the Castrol, I was not aware it was going away
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It's been out of the Castrol line since the first part of this year. I sold it to a couple automotive warehouses and their supply has been sold. Being a Castrol distributor we've been getting e mails from other distributors asking if we have any left. We're out.
 
Bryan said:
Before you apply air use a piece of wood in between the piston giving room for the weakest side to move out- apply a little clamping to those and work the other side- never has failed me yet-
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I also clamp it in a vice.
 
Austin Healer said:
when air won't work, this is my go to method.. sometimes difficult to find a grease fitting with a 3/8-24 TPI thread...
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You won't find the fitting at a store such as Advance, Autozone or any of the big box stores.
 
65beam said:
You won't find the fitting at a store such as Advance, Autozone or any of the big box stores.
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like I said, it's why I drill the pistons and thread the hole and force them out with a bolt! no mess to clean up, and it works every time..
 
Low Moisture Additive. I'm a believer in use what the system is known to have in it. Been running a Motul RBF 600 for some time. Not like I have a racing car but always thought that I prefer my clutch slave cylinders baked not fried by the header's :)
Yeah I know, I was mostly a clutch cable guy except for the Break My Wallet cars I owned.
 
As long as you either drive the car long enough to evaporate the water that the fluid absorbs, or change it regularly there will not be a problem, The problem with Dot 3 or Dot 4 fluid is that it absorbs moisture out of the air. Back when people actually drove the cars regularly (and actually performed routine maintenance) the brake fluid would reach a high enough temp to evaporate the water. As clutches never get hot enough, it was recommended by most manufacturers to flush and refill the hydraulic systems on an annual, or bi-annual schedule. (depending on climate)... With headers, the fluid's probably getting hot enough, Warren!!

The reason that Dot 4 fluid was originally specified, was that English systems used natural rubber, which Dot 3 fluid would dissolve. In the 90's the rage was to go to Dot 5 as it doesn't absorb water. The problem with this is two-fold... you cannot mix Dot 5 with either Dot 3 or Dot 4 fluids, so you have to start with a completely new (virgin) system. They have different swelling properties and mixing them will cause rapid seal deterioration and ultimate failure. In brake systems it can cause the seals to swell to the extent that the brakes will lock on and the only way to move the car is to open a bleed screw and use the e-brake to stop.

The other problem is, silicone brake fluid is compressible... Dot 3 and Dot 4 are not. This results in a spongey pedal not unlike the sensation of an improperly bled system. Definitely not the ideal condition if the car is to be used in "anger".

The simple solution is proper maintenance.... and the use of the correct specification fluid.
 
Austin Healer said:
As long as you either drive the car long enough to evaporate the water that the fluid absorbs, or change it regularly there will not be a problem, The problem with Dot 3 or Dot 4 fluid is that it absorbs moisture out of the air. Back when people actually drove the cars regularly (and actually performed routine maintenance) the brake fluid would reach a high enough temp to evaporate the water. As clutches never get hot enough, it was recommended by most manufacturers to flush and refill the hydraulic systems on an annual, or bi-annual schedule. (depending on climate)... With headers, the fluid's probably getting hot enough, Warren!!

The reason that Dot 4 fluid was originally specified, was that English systems used natural rubber, which Dot 3 fluid would dissolve. In the 90's the rage was to go to Dot 5 as it doesn't absorb water. The problem with this is two-fold... you cannot mix Dot 5 with either Dot 3 or Dot 4 fluids, so you have to start with a completely new (virgin) system. They have different swelling properties and mixing them will cause rapid seal deterioration and ultimate failure. In brake systems it can cause the seals to swell to the extent that the brakes will lock on and the only way to move the car is to open a bleed screw and use the e-brake to stop.

The other problem is, silicone brake fluid is compressible... Dot 3 and Dot 4 are not. This results in a spongey pedal not unlike the sensation of an improperly bled system. Definitely not the ideal condition if the car is to be used in "anger".

The simple solution is proper maintenance.... and the use of the correct specification fluid.
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Conventional DOT 3 fluid is 80% gylcol ether as a base which contributes to water absorption. Conventional DOT 4 has 50 to 65% gylcol ether and 20 to 30% Borate ester which helps to resist boiling. At 3.7% water which is referred to as the wet boiling point the DOT 3 will boil at around 290 F. With a DOT 4 and the same amount of moisture the boiling point goes up to around 330 F but will absorb the 3.7% moisture 20% faster. As previously mentioned DOT 4 needs flushed more often. There now are synthetic brake fluids available that are compatible with DOT 3 fluids. Castrol did have the additives to control absorption of moisture which they referred to as LMA. Never did find out what the percentage was but speculation was that it was the same as any other DOT 4 fluid since it was controlling moisture. They just went to market in a different way.
 
Gaining knowledge from this group's collective experience and wisdom is worth the price of renewal.

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