H/T fittings
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Warren
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There's a end cut or cross section that's not to scale on the Sunbeam Specialties catalog.
Please don't mistake the B pillar back bottom seal as it has the same metal channel.
OK I worked it out it was a job to get the seal over the front lip. After that was done a very time consuming job to get the other section into the channel. I found a tool that is used to push the locking nylon into flyscreen to attach to alum windows worked best. Pushing it down very hard in small sections allowed the seal to fit in the channel.
OK now onto the rest the triangular seals for the side windows are to long. They were bought from SS a few years ago but when I tried to fit no way they are 4-6 mm to long. Has anyone else found this. The rear seal is also a problem. The seal has to be threaded the whole length of the channel. By myself it can not be done. was this problem normal with restoration.
KenF
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Probably impossible to thread it through the channel. As I recall I kinda folded the seal like a taco to expose the section so you can see what's going on better, then used a plastic trim tool to jam it into the channel. I also recall it wasn't too fun and took patience.
Not sure about the quarter window seals. In what way are they too long?
Not sure about the quarter window seals. In what way are they too long?
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Insertion of the seals around the HT is a royal PITA. But, especially that front one. I'm still only temporarily there. I can imagine that new primer and paint only serves to make the channel even tighter, and the relatively soft rubber did not like to squeeze in. No joke, I took three days to fit the rear and side pieces, moving each piece a few inches prior to needing to give my fingers (thumbs) a days rest. My front (windscreen) portion is only temporarily attached at the moment. As W mentions, the cross section gives it away... there are technically two directions that the soft "T" shaped rubber mold can squeezee into the channel, but only one direction allows the forward facing rubber to seat itself to the front of the hardtop (otherwise, the rubber would be hanging far below, towards the inside of the HT, near where clamps will be, rather than to the top.
I've wondered about placing the rubber in the freezer or even briefly inside a dry ice tub to try and harden. I used a dishwashing soap and water mix to lube. some have used interior spudgies to leverage in one side. I've been procrastinating on getting back to this HT refurb and that front rubber piece is a big reason.
Other input: After all of your success getting trim on, go no farther until you 'dry fit' on the car itself. In my case, so far I've skimmed off layers of the "C" pillar thick rubber in order to try and get the (male) pins to insert farther into the boot hinges (female). Its still not there either. AND I'm planning to have some sort of film on car area to prevent paint rub through. This will of course, act counter to the rubber thinning and thats also demotivating.
The original rubber seals (most I have) are no longer as compliant, but definitely thinner. I've also modified the rubber piece at the lower clamp (B pillar) to allow that clamp hinge to sit as original. Pictures are better than text, but
I've wondered about placing the rubber in the freezer or even briefly inside a dry ice tub to try and harden. I used a dishwashing soap and water mix to lube. some have used interior spudgies to leverage in one side. I've been procrastinating on getting back to this HT refurb and that front rubber piece is a big reason.
Other input: After all of your success getting trim on, go no farther until you 'dry fit' on the car itself. In my case, so far I've skimmed off layers of the "C" pillar thick rubber in order to try and get the (male) pins to insert farther into the boot hinges (female). Its still not there either. AND I'm planning to have some sort of film on car area to prevent paint rub through. This will of course, act counter to the rubber thinning and thats also demotivating.
The original rubber seals (most I have) are no longer as compliant, but definitely thinner. I've also modified the rubber piece at the lower clamp (B pillar) to allow that clamp hinge to sit as original. Pictures are better than text, but
Well today I had assistance to fit that rear seal, hard top to car. we tried everything, warm soapy water. heating the rubber. cleaning out the channel rails of paint and other bits. Finally with me on a vicegrip grippiing the flat section and my mate guiding it in the channel, we finally got it in half way. It would not go any further. We realised that we would damage the seal if we tried to force it any more. So pull it out and then one of us held it in place and the other used a 8" heavy blade screwdriver and very slowly pushed the exposed part of the channel runner into place it took over 2 hours but it is in.
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Darn it forgot to warn / suggest for rear seal. If a continuous single piece, you no longer have access to the screws holding the chrome pins. I feel that there could be a benefit to not completely tightening those screws until pin to hinge is properly aligned. In retrospect, i might use shorter segments of rubber seal there, on both sides of each chrome piece (ie 4 small pieces) to at least temporarily fit top to car. Once those screws are then tightened, the full seal can go over it.
congrats getting yours on. Same experience with vise grips. I added soapy water as i pulled (and pushed) it went cm by cm literally. With HT on sawhorses, sitting on stool with HT pushed into my chest, grabbed front of seal with both hands on 'wings'. Pull front. Cm. Soap. Pull at rear of seal to allow slack. Soap. Repeat.
as youve an assistant, reload the tasty beverages. Have a dish with soapy water and small watercolor type brush on hand. Use your method on front seal but consider adding the solution on the lip side you are leveraging into the channel with the screwdriver (or try bicycle tire plastic lever to reduce gauging or injury potential)
Good luck with dry fit.
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How did the factory do this in period... Even with rootes i cant imagine they had several hours in fitting seals to the tops.... Is the repro rubber dimensionally off on the mount side... Rubber to hard or soft... Must be something
Warren
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As it was told to me better to have minimum paint in the all of the U shaped channel. No @#$_ ing way to pull any thru but the short body B to C pillars.
Per the C pillars rubber I had several sets and used some thinner ones. The thinnest ones were CAT product and I sent them on to another Tiger owner.
I have significant room under the C pillars, probably cause I took off the small riveted on U shaped about 3" piece that actually was fitted under the C post pad.
What's really needed is something to kill the sound intrusion from the boot as the h/t just makes it reverb and bounce about in the car. Love to see a boot firewall that's heavily soundproofed. Just as an experiment I filled the top cavity with insulation and poor man's Dynamatted the back of the soft top bin . Result less noise with and w/o the h/t on.
The only way I got it together was to flip the h/t upside down on the bed, plus that's a get it done or face the wrath of Mrs.
Plus one on the bicycle plastic tire tool. May be some repeat here as started writing then set the device down.
Per the C pillars rubber I had several sets and used some thinner ones. The thinnest ones were CAT product and I sent them on to another Tiger owner.
I have significant room under the C pillars, probably cause I took off the small riveted on U shaped about 3" piece that actually was fitted under the C post pad.
What's really needed is something to kill the sound intrusion from the boot as the h/t just makes it reverb and bounce about in the car. Love to see a boot firewall that's heavily soundproofed. Just as an experiment I filled the top cavity with insulation and poor man's Dynamatted the back of the soft top bin . Result less noise with and w/o the h/t on.
The only way I got it together was to flip the h/t upside down on the bed, plus that's a get it done or face the wrath of Mrs.
Plus one on the bicycle plastic tire tool. May be some repeat here as started writing then set the device down.
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The mki seriesI-IV are a little better with noise than the vynil cover of the late cars. If you add a spind proofing to the soft top doors it helps.
My IA has a firewall installed, ive been meaning to add some vibration/ sound deadeing to it
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I watched the owner of the shop that restored this top when he installed the rubber. He had a tool that he used to open and make sure the channel had the correct opening for the full length. If the channel is not right then you'll find installing the rubber to be a real chore. It took a lot of time to make sure there were no bends ,dents or dings in the channel. Once the channel is close to the way it was when new you insert one rib of the rubber in the channel and use something like the plastic tool to install the other rib into the channel. A process like this is why restoration shops charge by the hours involved to make the channel as close as possible to original. The factory could install the rubber fairly quick if the channel had no damage.
Warren
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Nothing easy about the h/t design..
Another example is replacing the attachment screws on the side windows. The little brackets prevent a std screwdriver from being used...
I got some button head stainless steel allen heads and bent a little wrench .
Plus here's a nice tool for the DiY type.
Another example is replacing the attachment screws on the side windows. The little brackets prevent a std screwdriver from being used...
I got some button head stainless steel allen heads and bent a little wrench .
Plus here's a nice tool for the DiY type.
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Warren
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So 1st off Maybe we should change the title of this so it reflects the hard top fitting?
Regarding corner pads being too big or too fat.
I recently sent away a set of really nice thin ones to Rix260 . I've taken about five hard tops apart because basically everyone has been kind of a pile of crap when I got it or look like crap. Under each of them under the corner pads was this little channel pictured. When I talk to Rick of Sunbeam Specialties he said take those things off.
since I did and I set my hard top on the car I got all kinds of room underneath the corner pads and don't have any problem whatsoever.
These two little metal channels one per side did not do anything other than possibly shim down the corner pad to be in contact with the car more. Possibly they also made it so the drain hole would work.
Regarding corner pads being too big or too fat.
I recently sent away a set of really nice thin ones to Rix260 . I've taken about five hard tops apart because basically everyone has been kind of a pile of crap when I got it or look like crap. Under each of them under the corner pads was this little channel pictured. When I talk to Rick of Sunbeam Specialties he said take those things off.
since I did and I set my hard top on the car I got all kinds of room underneath the corner pads and don't have any problem whatsoever.
These two little metal channels one per side did not do anything other than possibly shim down the corner pad to be in contact with the car more. Possibly they also made it so the drain hole would work.
I Agree, as soon as I saw those 2 little channels i knew they would foul the placement of the rubber. they came off.
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I've been told some hard tops were equipped with the channel to accept what could be referred to as a continuous seal around the back and up the sides under the side windows. This bit of info was told to me by a Sunbeam restorer here in Ohio. He restored the body of the green car.
Warren
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Wow I'd hate to disagree with Doug Sr. as the angle in which the little channel was riveted on says different. At least one was original unrestored condition when disassembled but a couple had them. I have some allegedly fat corner pads on yet I have no problems related to their thickness but the opposite. I think the clearance of the drain holes make the most sense of them as the crusty hard tops I sold on definitely had their drain holes completely blocked by the corner pads, or basically what was left of the corners.
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This style of hard top went into production with the series 3 Alpine. That was quite some time before Tiger production started. Does any one know for sure that Pressed Steel stamped out the hard top shells or was it farmed out to outside vendors because they weren't standard to all cars. Changes may have happened. As long as the top fits, seals and looks good then what more could you ask for.
There was a change in some of the hardware on the Series 3 and beyond (including all Tigers) hardtops. Take a look at the Rootes Alpine Parts Manual. Here is a Snip of part of the diagram showing the hardtop fittings and two Snips of part of the pages listing these parts. You can see there was a change in part numbers (with the change related to an Alpine VIN number - 395008041).
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I know there was a change in the profile and material composition of the hardtop to body seal during production.. That could be the change listed