MKII for sale, Germany

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"As has been said though, a gorgeous looking car that no doubt goes & handles as well as any Jenson produced Tiger and more importantly the buyer will know what they’re getting. "


The problem occurs when the new buyer decides to sell the car after a period of time and "forgets" to make mention that the car is a fraud, excuse me, rebody.
 
Stir That Pot

I am sure that this will stir up something, but just switching a VIN tag from one car to another is fraud. It doesn't matter what information is passed along. Transferring other parts does not make it less so. As far as the DMV is concerned, registering one car as another is fraud.

Why not keep the Alpine VIN number in the first place and love one's car for what it is?

David
 
Across the pond, it isn't seen the same way...which is why 276 of the original 185 Lotus 23b's still exist :D
 
Hello I am involved with the sale of the TIGER what is written here.
My opinion is that the history of this car is an open book and the new owner knows what he is buying. And dare this is a TIGER with a new, used body. He has all the right to call themselves "rebodied Tiger". He has the original VIN + JAL plates and the original NY title.
It costs $ 100,000 less than a perfect 100 points TIGER MK2.
He drives like a TIGER, he sounds like a TIGER and he looks like a TIGER MK2. I accept other opinions but always remain friendly.
 
MkIIdriver said:
He drives like a TIGER, he sounds like a TIGER and he looks like a TIGER MK2. I accept other opinions but always remain friendly.
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Thats great, its not a MKII Tiger though. When the original unibody was destroyed, so was that Tiger. You have a Alpine with Tiger parts on it. No Jensen line creation, means no Tiger.
 
In the Cobra world these are called AIR cars. Many times someone will take the chassis off a Cobra and build a car, then someone else takes the body and makes a car--now you have 2 Cobras with the same vin number--which is the real car? If someone dug up the rusted sheet metal from this MkII and built a car is that the real Tiger? I hate to say it but this is an Alger, a very good one, but still it's not the Tiger that left Jensen with the body mods that were performed in the 60's. I don't mean to offend, this is just my opinion.
 
Air car or "bitsa" it all ends up at the same place. What the value of these creations might be is dependent entirely on the market, but they are unquestionably compromised. That isn't a "bad" thing, just reality.

But, outside of the US (particularly states like CA), they aren't fraudulent per regulations and re-bodies are less looked down upon...as long as accompanied by full disclosure, as in the example being discussed. Just different norms (no pun, Norm :) )
 
Rebodied?

If it were rebodied (or reshelled), then a Tiger body would have been used. An Alpine body is not the same as a Tiger body. If I were to put the running gear from a Tiger into a Hillman (and used the JAL and VIN plate), I don't think anyone would consider that a Tiger.

I am surprised that other countries do allow someone to take the VIN plate off one car and put it on another car, unless the authorities aren't aware of the switch. Would I be allowed to take a VIN plate off a real Cobra and put it on a Pinto and still call it a Cobra?

Again, the car is a beautiful car, but it is an Alger (or whatever other term the owner wants to use except for Tiger). What makes it an Alpine is not a matter of performance, but of lineage. And an Alpine body did not start off the same as a Tiger.

David
 
I'm not disagreeing. I don't consider the car a Tiger, either.

Just pointing out that outside of the US Tiger community, other opinions are rationalized. Which is probably why there's been so much pushback on TAC over the pond?
 
UK Regulations

mwood said:
Just pointing out that outside of the US Tiger community, other opinions are rationalized. Which is probably why there's been so much pushback on TAC over the pond?
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You're absolutely right, there.

While I am no lawyer, I looked up on the UK MOT website to see what they say about changing the VIN plate from one vehicle to another. Here is what I found under Vehicle Registration, Radically Modified Vehicles:

Keep the original registration number

Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.

Part Points
Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1

There is a different section in their website for Rebuilt Vehicles. Here is what it says:

Keep a vehicle’s original registration number

A rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)
a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original (car or light van)
the original unmodified frame (motorbike)
a new frame of the same specification as the original (motorbike)

You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle from the following lists.

For cars or light vans:

suspension (front and back)
steering assembly
axles (both)
transmission
engine

Maybe I have it wrong, misinterpreting what is meant by registration number, but it certainly sounds like the UK government expects the registration to stay with the monocoque bodyshell or with a brand new one built to the same specifications. The Alpine bodyshell was built differently. The web page that I found the info on the radically altered vehicle is at https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles and the page for the Rebuilt Vehicles is at https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-vehicles

David
 
Values ??

My 2-cents: It's a project or hobby car, not a true Tiger. The value assessed between buyer and seller remains their own no matter what comments & slurs are tossed around. Would I reach into the cookie jar to pay for it? Nope . . . .!
 
Just to chime in on what David said.. re: not a tiger body... on a MKII its alarger issue given they are the Tigers that actually had a different pressing on the rear shelf that no other alpine or tiger had.

rebodies are fine to me.. as long as they retain the Alpine VIN/SAL .. once you start switching tags... you are opening up a bag of either deliberate/unintentional deception.
 
In my opinion, a Alger is an Alpine V8 without Tiger VIN and documents. And it is important that a new body or other modifications as other engines, advanced transmissions, modern front axles .... all the beautiful or less beautiful things that you can install should be attached in the vehicle history.
347, 331, TKO 500, DA front axles, ... etc all those things are also not original and came not from the Jensen line.
 
MkIIdriver said:
In my opinion, a Alger is an Alpine V8 without Tiger VIN and documents. And it is important that a new body or other modifications as other engines, advanced transmissions, modern front axles .... all the beautiful or less beautiful things that you can install should be attached in the vehicle history.
347, 331, TKO 500, DA front axles, ... etc all those things are also not original and came not from the Jensen line.
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Just to clarify... you are saying that if it has a Tiger VIN and JAL... that makes it a Tiger regardless of who built it...???

By the same token.. if you put an Alpine VIn and SAL on a Tiger it becomes an Alpine?
 
Finding Your Roots

The P.B.S. TV show . But in this case it's finding your car's Rootes. If you have ever watched that show they have a pie chart for ethnic make up.
This car is just as different as is the op's expressed.

The discussion on U.K. Tiger got rather out of hand let's keep it at agree to disagree guys.
 
Warren said:
The discussion on U.K. Tiger got rather out of hand let's keep it at agree to disagree guys.
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That happens all the time, whats with those guys? Some of it tried to creep over to the FB Tiger page but got squashed. I even had to block one guy on FB as he made statements like US soldiers were the cause of all the British casualties in Afghanistan and other crazy stuff....a real nut case.
 
Just to further muddy up the works, if it's really a German car, it was originally badged as an Alpine, not a Tiger.
 
germany

to make it even muddier I could say that if I were to buy it and bring it to this part of the world it would be titled and registered as a tiger. I buy cars from other states and all I do is take them to the local BMV, they check the vin number on the title to make sure it matches the number on the vin plate. if they match they issue a title and you pay the sales tax on what you say you paid for the car. no other inspections are done. then you walk next door and buy your license tags. if you want historical tags they order them and give you a temp plate. the difference is that you don't have to renew the historical plate for 50 years. I get no notice concerning the fact I need to renew the tags for the next 50 years. we also do not have personal property tax so the car is lost and the state could care less. according to the state if the numbers matched it would be a tiger. some may disagree and refuse to TAC it but you would not change what happened. you could also title it as an alpine if it had an alpine vin tag on it and the alpine title matched. the SAL or JAL tag have no bearing as far as identification of the car. the BMV doesn't care if the vin is not on the stolen or salvage list. I have three alpines that the title has no mention of the word SUNBEAM. one has the car listed as a "1963 ROOT", the other two just say "ROOTES". there was one time that the title office typed in SUNBIRD but we caught that when I checked over the title but that was corrected. if an investor buys it he may have trouble reselling it to someone that relies on TAC but an owner that just wants it has a tiger. I also have not seen an insurance company that requires a TAC certificate in order to come to an agreed value. so the debate goes on. is it or isn't it!
 
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