My wife has a friend with a Mark II that has been sitting in her garage for 20 years. She wants to sell it, so I am going to ge see the car tomorrow. I don't know anything about these cars, and so I'm hoping I can ask for some tips on what to look for. I'm told it's stock or very near stock. I have always liked these cars, but have never actually been next to one. To be honest, I've never considered on for myself because at 6'5'' I'm assuming I probably won't really even fit behind the wheel. I can't resist the opportunity to at least check it out though. I don't plan to attempt to start it, but thought I might bring a socket for the crank pully bolt to see if the engine will turn. I'll take pictures and post them if it goes that way...
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Austin Healer
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1. If you know anyone who does own a Tiger, see if they can come along with you.
2. There have been Alpines modified to look like Tigers, including changing the VIN plate from Alpine to Tiger. The best way to protect yourself from that is to make sure the car has passed a TAC certification. If it did, the owner would have a certificate and there would be a decal mounted under the instrument panel on the right side. If it has not been certified, my recommendation would be to making that a part of the deal, even if you pay the nominal amount.
3. Mk II Tigers are very rare (only about 533-6 produced). There are unique items which came on Mk IIs. Since the car was made in such small numbers, not many spares were made. These include a wider grill opening molding, molding around all four wheel arches, and trim pieces mounted along the sills on both sides. Also, the windshield washer bottle is larger in diameter than the other Tigers. While this is being reproduced, it is not identical. The Mk II came with an oil cooler mounted under the radiator and has the larger diameter power brakes booster. It also has an alternator instead of the generator which came on all the other Tigers.
4. Tigers are known to have weakness in the various mounts on the front cross member. Try to look for any signs of cracking, especially along welds.
5. Rust can be an issue. Check the floor of the boot (i.e., trunk) from both the top and bottom. Check the sills - behind the wheels and under the doors.
6. In an effort to make more room for larger exhaust pipes, folks have been know to remove part of the frame crossmember where the pipes go through. Make sure it is intact and not "ragged".
I am sure that there are many other suggestions folks can give you and mine do not cover everything. Good luck in checking out this car. It would be nice to have another Tiger back on the road.
David
Here are a few suggestions.
1. If you know anyone who does own a Tiger, see if they can come along with you.
2. There have been Alpines modified to look like Tigers, including changing the VIN plate from Alpine to Tiger. The best way to protect yourself from that is to make sure the car has passed a TAC certification. If it did, the owner would have a certificate and there would be a decal mounted under the instrument panel on the right side. If it has not been certified, my recommendation would be to making that a part of the deal, even if you pay the nominal amount.
3. Mk II Tigers are very rare (only about 533-6 produced). There are unique items which came on Mk IIs. Since the car was made in such small numbers, not many spares were made. These include a wider grill opening molding, molding around all four wheel arches, and trim pieces mounted along the sills on both sides. Also, the windshield washer bottle is larger in diameter than the other Tigers. While this is being reproduced, it is not identical. The Mk II came with an oil cooler mounted under the radiator and has the larger diameter power brakes booster. It also has an alternator instead of the generator which came on all the other Tigers.
4. Tigers are known to have weakness in the various mounts on the front cross member. Try to look for any signs of cracking, especially along welds.
5. Rust can be an issue. Check the floor of the boot (i.e., trunk) from both the top and bottom. Check the sills - behind the wheels and under the doors.
6. In an effort to make more room for larger exhaust pipes, folks have been know to remove part of the frame crossmember where the pipes go through. Make sure it is intact and not "ragged".
I am sure that there are many other suggestions folks can give you and mine do not cover everything. Good luck in checking out this car. It would be nice to have another Tiger back on the road.
David
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There are 2 gas tanks. One on each side of the trunk. On MK2's the fuel pump is located in the trunk, so also easily accessed. Yes, carb kits are easily sourced as it's a Ford carb. Mechanical parts for the entire car are easy to source. So are brake and suspension parts. Wiring harnesses and switches are also easy. The small gauges are shared with the series 5 Alpine. Speedo and tach are special. It's things like the stainless trim, grille and headlight rings that are very difficult to replace if missing or damaged. The oil cooler is unique to the Mk2 as well and can be difficult to source.
There are other Mk2 specific parts, some easier to source, others not so much. These include the w/s washer reservoir, the correct Mk2 overflow tank for the cooling system, and electrical components for the charging system (field resistor).
attached is a pic of the "tac" sticker "HolyCat" referred to so you know what and where to look for
There are other Mk2 specific parts, some easier to source, others not so much. These include the w/s washer reservoir, the correct Mk2 overflow tank for the cooling system, and electrical components for the charging system (field resistor).
attached is a pic of the "tac" sticker "HolyCat" referred to so you know what and where to look for
Austin Healer
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Here's what the exhaust pass throughs should look like. The car pictured is a Mk1a, but they all look the same.
She was told by the club she's in that it's worth $45K as it sits. Turns out the car has been stored outside for at least 20 years, she says covered. She does have all the Mk II exterior chrome trim pices and grill in a box. It has the TAC sticker, and has a Chrysler Pentagram on the right fender. There is some plastic filler in that right front fender. Original rims are long gone. No key for the steering lock bar. I did not see inside the trunk, and I don't know if the engine is free. I'm not liking the looks of the underside. Does it look like the driver seat is all the way back? Man, I'm 6'5" and it's tight in there!
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It doesn't look horrible underneath... that's a REALLY bad spot to put a jack!! Original rivets on the vin tag which is a good sign. Color code 39 is Cardinal Red, which is what it is now. This car is about 200 cars before mine... I have #463
The license plate lamps on the rear bumper are wrong. The ignition coil is in the wrong location. The seats have the MK1 Tiger pattern of pleats... not Mk2. if they are Mk1 seat frames, they're wrong for the car. The breather cap on the valve cover is incorrect (and hard to find!) It's hard to tell which intake manifold and carb it has, but it looks to be a 4bbl. The carb is likely a Holley which are easily rebuildable and parts are easy to source. The Edelbrock F4B intake was offered as an LAT high performance option.
there should be a real wood wheel under the steering wheel wrap.
The OE wheels are not a big deal... same as '67 Alpine and most people opt for a larger diameter wheel for better tire choices. I have 14" genuine Minilites with 185/60/14 in front and 205/60/14 in the rear.
No disrespect to the owner, it's not worth $45K... I've been restoring these cars for near 40 years. It's probably worth, at a max $30K... that said, it'll chew up the better part of $80K to restore and then be worth in the mid to high $90's if restored properly and correctly.
In my opinion, It's a real Mk2.
I paid $6,500 for my Mk2 4 years ago... it was missing parts and was a lot rustier that this one... to be sure. I was fortunate that I had the missing bits and the requisite skills to do the work myself.
To give you an idea of restoration costs you can expect to spend the following (best case scenario!!)
Chrome source missing parts, have stainless polished and replate chrome parts... minimum $10K
Body and paint.. paint materials alone are likely to cost well over $6K.. PPG gets better than $2K a gallon for colors, and that does not include reducer, clear and catalyst, or primer products. Depending on what you find when the paint is stripped, you might have another 10K plus work of billable labor, or LOTS more... especially on a car that has been stored outside. Storing a car under a tarp is just about the most destructive environment imaginable.
Mechanical engine rebuild, gearbox rebuild, axle rebuild. allow for $10K at a minimum.
Hydraulics brakes and clutch. new masters, new wheel cylinders, now brake rotors, booster rebuild, turn drums, and all new hard and flex lines plus labor $5k
Electrical new wiring harness, switches misc. parts and labor $2500
interior and top $5-7500 add another $3k to restore the hardtop
Cooling system hoses, radiator re-core, ect $1k
Fuel system clean and repair/replace tanks as required, new fuel pump, new hard lines, carb rebuild $1k to 1500
all these estimates are "best case scenarios"
I recently finished the resto of a Mk1 Tiger for a client in San Diego. The car was not rusty and was a running driving car... I'd guess it was well over $80K by the time I was done. I also restored the prototype Mk1a and it was well over $100K.
Just so you know... I'M NOT bidding for the job! I'm 64 years old and winding down my business in expectation of leaving for a "green and pleasant land" (England). I am a British citizen, so fairly easy to pack up and go!
The car IS worth restoring... Just not with a starting price of $45K unless you've got money to burn. The last Mk2 to sell made in the $90's. if you bought at $45K you'd have little more than that to spend before being under water... There was a time about 5 years ago that these cars were bringing better than $125K and Mk1/Mk1a cars were in the $80-90 range. Those days are long gone. There have been 2 Mka's that managed 90K last year, but most are bringing $40-60 now.
Best wishes,
Sean
The license plate lamps on the rear bumper are wrong. The ignition coil is in the wrong location. The seats have the MK1 Tiger pattern of pleats... not Mk2. if they are Mk1 seat frames, they're wrong for the car. The breather cap on the valve cover is incorrect (and hard to find!) It's hard to tell which intake manifold and carb it has, but it looks to be a 4bbl. The carb is likely a Holley which are easily rebuildable and parts are easy to source. The Edelbrock F4B intake was offered as an LAT high performance option.
there should be a real wood wheel under the steering wheel wrap.
The OE wheels are not a big deal... same as '67 Alpine and most people opt for a larger diameter wheel for better tire choices. I have 14" genuine Minilites with 185/60/14 in front and 205/60/14 in the rear.
No disrespect to the owner, it's not worth $45K... I've been restoring these cars for near 40 years. It's probably worth, at a max $30K... that said, it'll chew up the better part of $80K to restore and then be worth in the mid to high $90's if restored properly and correctly.
In my opinion, It's a real Mk2.
I paid $6,500 for my Mk2 4 years ago... it was missing parts and was a lot rustier that this one... to be sure. I was fortunate that I had the missing bits and the requisite skills to do the work myself.
To give you an idea of restoration costs you can expect to spend the following (best case scenario!!)
Chrome source missing parts, have stainless polished and replate chrome parts... minimum $10K
Body and paint.. paint materials alone are likely to cost well over $6K.. PPG gets better than $2K a gallon for colors, and that does not include reducer, clear and catalyst, or primer products. Depending on what you find when the paint is stripped, you might have another 10K plus work of billable labor, or LOTS more... especially on a car that has been stored outside. Storing a car under a tarp is just about the most destructive environment imaginable.
Mechanical engine rebuild, gearbox rebuild, axle rebuild. allow for $10K at a minimum.
Hydraulics brakes and clutch. new masters, new wheel cylinders, now brake rotors, booster rebuild, turn drums, and all new hard and flex lines plus labor $5k
Electrical new wiring harness, switches misc. parts and labor $2500
interior and top $5-7500 add another $3k to restore the hardtop
Cooling system hoses, radiator re-core, ect $1k
Fuel system clean and repair/replace tanks as required, new fuel pump, new hard lines, carb rebuild $1k to 1500
all these estimates are "best case scenarios"
I recently finished the resto of a Mk1 Tiger for a client in San Diego. The car was not rusty and was a running driving car... I'd guess it was well over $80K by the time I was done. I also restored the prototype Mk1a and it was well over $100K.
Just so you know... I'M NOT bidding for the job! I'm 64 years old and winding down my business in expectation of leaving for a "green and pleasant land" (England). I am a British citizen, so fairly easy to pack up and go!
The car IS worth restoring... Just not with a starting price of $45K unless you've got money to burn. The last Mk2 to sell made in the $90's. if you bought at $45K you'd have little more than that to spend before being under water... There was a time about 5 years ago that these cars were bringing better than $125K and Mk1/Mk1a cars were in the $80-90 range. Those days are long gone. There have been 2 Mka's that managed 90K last year, but most are bringing $40-60 now.
Best wishes,
Sean
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Agree with Sean on his points.. and estimate of work required.. whoever said 45k was either being polite...or...more likely a valuation from 2014/15 when a restored mkii was bringing 200k... As discussed.. long gone and very nice mkii are now 125 at peak.
The seats are likely wrong frames as they appear to have the separate rear squab. So likely not just the covers.
The VIN is undisturbed, and the JAL screws also look right.
You should have checked behind the passenger seat to see it there was a batch or just pressed ribs...but I'd guess it has the correct deck.. and appears to have the clips on the sill for the stainless trims.
The wheels are J.A.P ( john Alexander Pearce) quite rare late 60s alloys... But not much value in 13" wheels these days.
A good starting point for a Resto... Seems decent.. and if all the mkii trim is with the car and you feel like a project... Go for it... But I'd say less than 30k as you don't know what's hiding under what's left of the paint..
The seats are likely wrong frames as they appear to have the separate rear squab. So likely not just the covers.
The VIN is undisturbed, and the JAL screws also look right.
You should have checked behind the passenger seat to see it there was a batch or just pressed ribs...but I'd guess it has the correct deck.. and appears to have the clips on the sill for the stainless trims.
The wheels are J.A.P ( john Alexander Pearce) quite rare late 60s alloys... But not much value in 13" wheels these days.
A good starting point for a Resto... Seems decent.. and if all the mkii trim is with the car and you feel like a project... Go for it... But I'd say less than 30k as you don't know what's hiding under what's left of the paint..
Thanks so much to you all for the very comprehensive responses. I am very much on the fence with this. I am comfortable with handing all the mechanical work, but not the body and trim work. I was a little distracted yesterday when I looked at the car and plan to give it a more focused look this week. It's only 10 minutes from my house. The non-negotiable thing is that at 6'5" tall, I really don't think I can comfortably or even safely drive the car. I am not sure the seat was all the way back, so that's another thing I want to check. I need to look in the trunk and I didn't step on the brake or clutch pedals, so although in the big scheme of things it really doesn't matter at this stage if the pedals go straight to the floor, it would be good to know what's going on with all that. I want to put a ratchet on the crank pulley too to see if the engine will even turn. All these things can be used to negotiate. And here's the thing I have not mentioned: she has a '66 1A, also TAC certified, in the garage. It was so tightly packed in there that I couldn't even get next to it, and the garage is being blocked by the imobile MkII. All I know about the 1A is that it was stolen twice, and the second time it was taken, the thieves blew the trans. So she backed it down the driveway and into the garage. That car is probably in better shape since it has at least been out of the weather, and I'm thinking the blown trans should be an "easy" fix. More later.
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After 20 years I'd just plan on rebuilding everything in the hydraulics... I'd be surprised if the clutch disc isn't glued to the flywheel... It's an engine out job to service the clutch. The easiest way to remove the engine is out the bottom of the car. Hydraulic fluid absorbs water out of the air so the insides of the brake pipes are corroded and I would just replace them, same with the metal fuel lines. The fuel pump is shared with the MGB and Big Healey and readily available. I'd replace the wheel cylinders and masters. The bores are anodized aluminum and if you hone them they will leak in 6 months... It's more cost effective to just buy new parts. The calipers are simple to rebuild and share their internal parts with the TR4-6 and Austin Healey 3000 Mk3. The brake booster can be rebuilt if the bores and vacuum can and piston are undamaged... occasionally NOS or rebuilt units show up on ebay. Alternatively a Lockheed booster can be installed. I do not recommend "turning" the front brake discs as they are solid (unventilated) and will quickly warp when applied for hard or panic stops. If the rear drums aren't serviceable, they're shared with the Alpine.
The radiator is likely silted up as well and will need to be re-cored, or replaced. Even if the engine spins over by hand, after 20 years the rings have likely lost their tension and the car will have low compression and will use oil.
you'll want to replace all of the seals in the axle and gearbox and all of the suspension bushings as well...
The damaged trans in the MK1a is easy to rebuild. All the parts are available from David Kee and others. Again, this is an engine out job, there is no way to remove the gearbox with the engine in place.
As I said before... 6'5" would be a tight fit! The pedals are adjustable (2 positions). The steering wheel is also adjustable fore and aft. if your legs (thighs clear the steering wheel and there's a will, you'll fit!
There is quite a difference in finished values between a Mk1a and a Mk2 if the car is properly restored $20-40K anyway. Aside from the different engine and trans, different exterior trim and the interior details, the cars are pretty much the same. It's probably a safe bet that both cars need all of the same work. If the Mk2 has been blocking the Mk1a then the Mk1a has been sitting at least as long!!
The structure of the car is the most important part of the car and the most involved to repair as the car is of unibody construction. It shouldn't be too difficult to cut the steering lock out of the Mk2. If you're serious about a purchase then you ought to have it towed somewhere where it can be put on a lift so you can assess the condition of the underside of the car...
The radiator is likely silted up as well and will need to be re-cored, or replaced. Even if the engine spins over by hand, after 20 years the rings have likely lost their tension and the car will have low compression and will use oil.
you'll want to replace all of the seals in the axle and gearbox and all of the suspension bushings as well...
The damaged trans in the MK1a is easy to rebuild. All the parts are available from David Kee and others. Again, this is an engine out job, there is no way to remove the gearbox with the engine in place.
As I said before... 6'5" would be a tight fit! The pedals are adjustable (2 positions). The steering wheel is also adjustable fore and aft. if your legs (thighs clear the steering wheel and there's a will, you'll fit!
There is quite a difference in finished values between a Mk1a and a Mk2 if the car is properly restored $20-40K anyway. Aside from the different engine and trans, different exterior trim and the interior details, the cars are pretty much the same. It's probably a safe bet that both cars need all of the same work. If the Mk2 has been blocking the Mk1a then the Mk1a has been sitting at least as long!!
The structure of the car is the most important part of the car and the most involved to repair as the car is of unibody construction. It shouldn't be too difficult to cut the steering lock out of the Mk2. If you're serious about a purchase then you ought to have it towed somewhere where it can be put on a lift so you can assess the condition of the underside of the car...
I'm 6'4" and have no issues with my Mk 1 . The seats are actually adjustable and can drop down a lot ( there's a bar underneath you flick -Makes a huge difference) The pedals and steering wheel are all adjustable -once everything set up probably has the most room you will get in a sixties sports car and certainly one of the most comfortable rides .
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with the possible exception of a Big Healey! I have both!!
I got into the garage today to look at the 1A. Turns out the car has been in there 38 years based on the police department crayon on the windshield when it was in the impound lot. December 1987! Looks good underneath, and I scared a big rat out from under it. Photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/17hC84Xk15CEytn49. I didn't get a photo of the tags or the TAC sticker, but both cars are listed in the book of Norman which she lent me.
By the way, the MKII has an Offenhauser manifold and what looks to be a Holley double pumper on it.
All Mk II photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jb4HTacDsXVfaQn96
She has to sell them both, but I don't have the facilities to get either one back on the road, so I'll have to pass.
I really don't think she meant to misrepresented the cars. I think the years got away from her.
By the way, the MKII has an Offenhauser manifold and what looks to be a Holley double pumper on it.
All Mk II photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jb4HTacDsXVfaQn96
She has to sell them both, but I don't have the facilities to get either one back on the road, so I'll have to pass.
I really don't think she meant to misrepresented the cars. I think the years got away from her.
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Like the rest of us old experienced curmudgeons, I advise caution when it comes to pre-restoration values. Breathing life back into these critters will tax a fat wallet in a heartbeat. My frugal genetics would not offer much because I am very familiar with the following expenses. Recovery values will be negative. Then again, it is flat out a rare mongrel and the smile when going thru the gears is wide.
Austin Healer
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No kidding. those of us that actually work or restore these cars know what it takes to get them back on the road, It's never easy and it's never cheap
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In case you don't know, those books sell for $800 - $1000
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Just for the record, back in the '90s
I did lots of Tiger clutch and trans
jobs WITH the Engine in place.
(One New/inexperienced owner Used
up 2 clutches in THREE months!)
HOWEVER, I did not do it on my back,
not that it couldn't be done that way.
I did it WITHOUT modifying the car,
NO added holes in the trans tunnel, etc.
Having the necessary tools IS a must!
As well as patients, determination
and the possible threat of starvation...
...or not making a Race.... ;-)
Stock cars are the easiest, with the
possible exception of the shifter...
Headers make it harder!
DW
I did lots of Tiger clutch and trans
jobs WITH the Engine in place.
(One New/inexperienced owner Used
up 2 clutches in THREE months!)
HOWEVER, I did not do it on my back,
not that it couldn't be done that way.
I did it WITHOUT modifying the car,
NO added holes in the trans tunnel, etc.
Having the necessary tools IS a must!
As well as patients, determination
and the possible threat of starvation...
...or not making a Race.... ;-)
Stock cars are the easiest, with the
possible exception of the shifter...
Headers make it harder!
DW
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