Opinion on VIN Tag Removal

P

P. Scofield

Black arm band member RIP
Messages
384
I'm seriously considering have my Tiger body dipped I insure I get all the crud out of the cracks and crevices, and so I can really see what I'm dealing with in replacing my rockers, or portions of.

The downside is you cannot have ANY aluminum on the body or its gone, therefore, the VIN tag must be temporarily removed. I really hate to remove it just because there are so many questionable, and un original cars floating around, and don't want mine to be suspect.

I had my Rust free Alpine blasted and was not that happy with the whole process. Had to turn it on my rotisserie over and over and over, blowing and vacuuming. Probably never did get all the sand out.

Document the process?

So give me some feedback.
 
Well, we all know it's illegal, that's why I asked. But we all know 1000's of cars every year are chemically stripped, very nice rare expensive cars. And it's not an option when chemically stripping. You leave it on, you have no VIN tag.

I don't see the DMV or state police lining up at the dipping service. :D

Thus, I asked.

P
 
P. Scofield said:
Well, we all know it's illegal, that's why I asked. But we all know 1000's of cars every year are chemically stripped, very nice rare expensive cars. And it's not an option when chemically stripping. You leave it on, you have no VIN tag.

I don't see the DMV or state police lining up at the dipping service. :D

Thus, I asked.

P
Click to expand...

Well if you read the whole article then you should have noted that here in Ca you can go to the DMV and get authorization to remove the vin plate by completing the proper paper work and you have a correct trail. YOu might just check what's available in Kansas

Moondoggie
 
VIN

it would be interesting to do a poll at either a united or maybe at suni to see how many cars have had the vin tag removed during the restoration. it wouldn't be hard to tell which cars had the vin tag left on. there is a difference between removing the vin for a restoration and removing the vin for the purpose of theft of the car. it seems that our new cars have not only vin tags in the windshied but it looks like every body panel has a bar code. it feels like the clear coat was sprayed over the bar codes. we use a dipper in Cincinnati that doug has used forever. I picked up some items a few months back and he was showing me a body for an old 40's Lincoln. it turned out that under the paint the coach builder had some aluminum panels. the owner had no idea that it had some aluminum parts. after it was in the tank for a few hours the solution and the aluminum started to react. it really gets nasty when that happens. they lost a lot of time cleaning, etc. the solution looks like it is boiling. the Lincoln also was missing some pieces when he got it out of the tank. dipping is the way to go. doug had one of my cars blasted about 20 years ago. the stuff filtered out until we let it set thru a flood about a year after he finished it and that cleaned it. we had another situation to deal with after that. soda blasting brings up another set of problems. remove the tag and dip it.
 
VIN Tag Removal

I thought a lot about the dipping vs sandblasting options because of the VIN Tag removal question. After a conversation with Inspector Couet of the Washington State Patrol in Bellevue, Wa it was clear toe that i could legally remove the tag for restoration purposes after he inspected the shell. During the inspection he stamped the shell with a die, shaped like the state of Wa. Luckily he stamped in 3 places, twice on the drivers door B pillar and once on the drivers side frame rail in the engine compartment. After the dipping I could find no sign of the B pillar stamps, but the frame rail stamp is still visible. I have all of the documentation supporting the legality, and I made sure I communicated with the local TAC guys about my intentions. Yes, I won't have original rivets, but I will be able to document an original Tiger.

I bet the shell lost 50lbs of bondo. It looked like Swiss cheese. All I needed was some ham and bread for a sandwich!
 
That's what I'm talking about!

Thanks,
P


65beam said:
it would be interesting to do a poll at either a united or maybe at suni to see how many cars have had the vin tag removed during the restoration. it wouldn't be hard to tell which cars had the vin tag left on. there is a difference between removing the vin for a restoration and removing the vin for the purpose of theft of the car. it seems that our new cars have not only vin tags in the windshied but it looks like every body panel has a bar code. it feels like the clear coat was sprayed over the bar codes. we use a dipper in Cincinnati that doug has used forever. I picked up some items a few months back and he was showing me a body for an old 40's Lincoln. it turned out that under the paint the coach builder had some aluminum panels. the owner had no idea that it had some aluminum parts. after it was in the tank for a few hours the solution and the aluminum started to react. it really gets nasty when that happens. they lost a lot of time cleaning, etc. the solution looks like it is boiling. the Lincoln also was missing some pieces when he got it out of the tank. dipping is the way to go. doug had one of my cars blasted about 20 years ago. the stuff filtered out until we let it set thru a flood about a year after he finished it and that cleaned it. we had another situation to deal with after that. soda blasting brings up another set of problems. remove the tag and dip it.
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tag

I think i'll check out the cars at suni to see how many have had the vin removed and reinstalled. it won't be a difficult thing to do.
 
Interesting idea and Other thoughts...

P. Scofield said:
At the suggestion of another member, I'm going to talk to the dipper about dipping up to a limited point. After all, the dirt grime and rust is all very low on the body.

I like the concept of a shallow dip and appreciate your VIN concern. Went with media assuming our car to be relatively free of rust. This was mostly correct, but (as always) a few spots flared up. One was at the soft top hinge drain, which had backed up with debris allowing water and grime to eat away. So... not always only the lower points.

Other concept... barrier.

Most realize the benefit of 'original' anything, such as the plate and rivets. So... what can't the stripping agent remove? Steel; anything else? What about Sn and Pb, or high temp adhesives?

Cover the VIN:
What about welding and/or soldering and/or chem adhesive sealing a steel plate OVER the existing VIN plate. Hermetically sealed of course (yes, not easy, but commonplace on some electronic devices). Sure, you may have body work required to refill / file the cowling post strip process, but... haven't seen too many questions about cowling repairs (excepting extreme cases). While thinking, I wonder exactly how much time the acid needs to get through certain hard rubbers, or silicon impregnated rubbers? One might be able to simply screw down a (thick) plate, with a hard rubber surround(s), to dam and prevent acid access to the VIN plate. Knowing the seal would be eaten away at, but maybe not removed completely in the time spent at that depth...

Certainly the simplest solution is to pop the original rivets. With more complexity, maybe only remove via the bottom side(?), with many photos and maybe even the State police consent. Re-attach VIN plate and/or rivet heads with adhesive. 'Creative originality'

My opinion:
- I'd do everything I could to keep the original plate appearance, as currently installed.
- I value that authenticity more than the rivets themselves.
- Had I been in similar situ to you, I'd too have dipped the car.
- Its commendable to be saving the entire vehicle, a wart or two should be overlooked.
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When I had my 55 Chevy blasted years ago I duct taped over the aluminum vin tag since at the time original rivets were not available. It turned out ok and I retained the originality of the car. I imagine the same can be done with Tigers if you want to keep it "original". As far as looking at other cars to see who has original rivets only tells if they have been removed and not any type of monkey business.
 
Hard

To stay away from this thread. Paul it was good to talk to you. I'm glad you like the shallow bath idea. One thing I did not think of was the electrolysis bath used in the past for my hard top project. I know you are thinking was his last name Goldberg? Others on UK Tiger have used big trash bins.

I'm thinking get a cheap above ground pool or line a pit with the pool liner and roll the beast in. No ooze no piles of media dribbling into the paint, no haz mat nastiness and its just sodium carbonate. I have heard of it being done by old school guys but it has that urban legend flavor. I have done lots of gas tanks and it is the greatest. I would never use the epoxy crap or any other method. If I had your car it would be a serious consideration as I have the real estate and plenty of ditch diggers available.

If you go the dip method bring your check book and be sure to say, "Mother may I," to the local DMV.

They are only original once, keep the horse in the barn if you can.

I'm passing on that pile of parts we talked about.
 
DD (CA) said:
Cover the VIN:
What about welding and/or soldering and/or chem adhesive sealing a steel plate OVER the existing VIN plate. Hermetically sealed of course (yes, not easy, but commonplace on some electronic devices). Sure, you may have body work required to refill / file the cowling post strip process, but... haven't seen too many questions about cowling repairs (excepting extreme cases). While thinking, I wonder exactly how much time the acid needs to get through certain hard rubbers, or silicon impregnated
Click to expand...

DD,
Actually, I have thought about welding a box atop of the cowl, say about a 6" x 4" covering the VIN tag. The box could be ground off and welds ground down, and a small amount of filler would heal the scars. However, I could not be sure the VIN tag rivets would not leak from under the cowl. Also, are the rivets aluminum or steel? I think they are steel. Bottom line it may be a horrific gamble. I keep visualizing taking the box off only to find solution spilling out and the VIN tag gone, sacrificed in its own private tomb! :eek:

Well, I have some time to figure it out. Thanks for all the input. Who knows, I may get thing beast up on a rotisserie and decide not to dip at all, but I sure like the look of bare metal.
 
Tagless

Ole' B382000078: After several abusive crash damage and rust repairs over the decades, we finally reached the point where the upper cowl needed rehab and the TAG had to come off or be destroyed in the process. It's more than a bit wounded anyway, so it didn't bother my conscience to drill them out and replace with nice stainless rivets. We know it's real, and that's all that matters . . . .rw
 
Dipping versus media blasting. I'vd had several discussions with owners who have done both and here are the main points:

Media blasting:
1) Media will continually come out from the nooks and crannies. Can cause warping of body panels if not done right.
2) You can't get at rust or corrosion hidden from view. Some use cut off wheels to remove parts of body or frame to get at hidden areas and weld the parts back on.
3) Have to paint primer very soon after done, else it will rust.

Dipping:
1) The solvent will leak out from hidden areas. Sometime this happens after paint was applied and car was reassembled. This is mostly due to not neutralizing solvent in hidden areas.
2) Any paint or rustproof material will be removed from hidden areas. Like the above, some will cut off parts of body or frame, paint or treat with coating, then weld parts back on. Or e-coat it to get primer in hidden areas.
3) Environmental factor of solvents makes this more difficult to find a shop willing to do it.
4) Don't have to paint right away but store it in a dry place.
5) More expensive that blasting.
 
People say things

I have seen that site before and they seem like a good outfit. The urban legend I was mocking was that the electrolysis method has been used on such a big item. I am sure that there are firms that spoil the reputation of the process like everywhere else.

D.D. that's a good one Hermetically sealed , doesn't it also have to be kept safe in a mayonnaise jar in Funk and Wagnels back yard:)
 
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