Refurb of all hydraulics... Help!!

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eagleman1022

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I need some input from the forums experience on dis-assembly of old hydraulics. My cylinders and servo have been sitting in boxes for over twenty years and now the pistons are frozen. I'd appreciate any positive input. I have some specific questions:

1. Does anyone know the working pressures for these systems. I'm sure it's quite high, but I don't want to exceed safe pressures in trying "blow" the pistons out of the bores.
2. What is a good lubricant to soak the parts in that won't cause them to swell? I am thinking a good lubricant like Ru-Glyde might help the parts slip better. I also thought of PB Blaster but wasn't sure what might happen to plastic or rubber.
3. I'm thinking of using air pressure first; if that doesn't work I may get an old master cylinder to use as a "jacking pump" to force pressurized fluid into the units to move the pistons.

Any other good ideas would be appreciated.
I really, really want to use the original parts if at all possible even though new parts would be easier.
 
eagleman1022 said:
I really, really want to use the original parts if at all possible even though new parts would be easier.
Click to expand...

My $.02. Box up all of your cool 45+ year old hydraulic parts or put them in a display case. Buy new and be done with it.

You want your brakes and clutch to be in perfect condition. You are betting your life on the brakes. Don't forget about the brake lines and use stainless steel braided hoses.

Or.............box up all said parts and send them to - http://www.applehydraulics.com/brakes.htm Will cost you about as much as new though.
 
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Do the easy stuff

I almost went to a dual brake master cylinder. My career mechanic friend who is a foreign car specialist,told me in so many words that I was a whimp for worrying about the cylinder going out like it used to do in the movies.

Remember a brake line being cut by the evil murderous criminal then the helpless driver went down the hill to oblivion?

His logic was quite simple, you feel the spongy odd feeling before they stop working completely. If you have a full master cyl.. I add.

In 1967 Federal Vehicle Motor Safety Standards, mandated the dual master cylinder, how a MK2 got imported without a dual master is a mystery to me. Maybe it was 1968 FMVSS?

All but the booster can be purchased new from Moss or SS, there are options like the Ford Courier dual master. I have seen much discussion in other UK and TE AE and Tigers Utd. The bad is they do not look very original.

As for the SS brake lines some can be of inferior quality and made of thin plastic with merely a covering of the braided SS. I would doubt many or any of them have a DOT rating, But IDK about the ones offered on our CAT site. If that is the look you are going for it is a fun modification easily un done.

Remember that the pistons and bodies of the cylinders are probably also metals that do not really like being in touch with each other, dissimilar metals and all that.

If the parts were NLA you would have to have them re sleeved and pistons changed, but it is your lucky day get em while you can. Keep the NOS cardboard boxes as some guys like "display" items like that.

While on the topic looked and looked in every auto supplier for the Castrol fluid that they suggest, Not to be found in So. Cal.

As for the clutch master and slave they are cheap too...
 
Several months back I went to Castrol website to find a local seller. It said Pep Boys, went to 2 neither had it. Also said Auto Zone, went to 2 neither had it. Went to Cragans didn't have it. They all carry other Castrol products. Emailed Castrol and was told store only gets supplied if they ask for it which means there aren't enough customers asking for it.

I've also found the reverse to be true. If a product sells to fast it becomes a burden on the store to keep it in stock so they don't. Go figure.
 
hydraulics

use a grease gun to pop out the pistons. just pump the grease in and out pops the pistons.
 
THE Brake Fluid

If you are referring to Castrol GTLMA - PepBoys is where I find it in SoCal.

I think there are a couple things that throw people off.

"Synthetic" in this case is not Silicone. It is compatible with "natural"? brake fluid. The label says DOT 3 DOT 4. What is it? Neither "Exceeds DOT 3 and DOT 4 Specs". It is better.

Best part is LMA ... Low Moisture Activity means it resists absorbing H2O which has a low boiling point. Heavy duty use like racing might create a steam bubble in the brake lines! If you have water absorbed in the fluid.

Picture of the bottle below.

Rick
 
I could not find the brake fluid anywhere within 30 miles of my house in the Riverside area of So Cal. When you go to their web site they show many location but turns out only oil and not brake fluid. Not even pep boys. I ordered from Rick at SS. He is becoming my best friend as I sort out my new Tiger. Lee
 
I agree with Duke. In addition to what has already been mentioned, some personal words of advice;
1. Buy a new master cylinder. Get the Alpine Series II 0.75" bore master cylinder (smaller bore than came on the Tiger). Wilwood sells them for a reasonable price if you can't find them anywhere else. The smaller bore size will give you a much more reasonable (lower) pedal effort if the booster fails and you have to drive it home on manual (unboosted) brakes. Some people say that you don't need a booster servo when you use this master cylinder, I'm not one of those people.
2. Buy a new Lockheed brake booster servo. It is FAR more reliable than the factory original Girling (but not completely bullet-proof, ask me how I know). The only real drawback is that it has a 2:1 boost ratio where the original Girling was a 3:1 boost ratio which is another reason why you should go with the smaller bore master cylinder because it will give you the same braking feel as stock.
3. Buy new rear wheel cylinders. Stick with the stock size.
4. Buy stainless steel caliper pistons to rebuild your calipers with. DO NOT SPLIT THE CALIPERS when you rebuild them! Don't worry about a little pitting or corrosion in the caliper bores, just hone or sand them a little until they are reasonably smooth (don't overdo this).
5. Replace all of the brake lines. SAE convex bubble flare (aka Girling flare) brake lines and BSF fittings are used on our cars. SAE convex bubble flares are obsolete but DIN bubble flares can be used on our cars with the original fittings. Preflared/prefabricated brake lines with BSF fittings and DIN bubble flaring tools will not be readily available items at your local auto parts stores.
6. The flex hoses have already been talked about. BTW, the club hoses are excellent, I recommend them.
7. DO NOT use DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. It is NOT completely compatible with our cars and will cause problems down the road. I use ATE DOT 4 Racing Brake Fluid. It is a little expensive but it is the best brake fluid that you can buy. It comes in both amber (type 200) and blue (super blue) colors so that you can alternate between them when flushing the system every few years giving you a good visual indication that you got all of the old fluid out. I use it in all of my vehicles. Also, it comes in a metal can that fully seals and preserves the shelf life so that you can save it and use it all up instead of discarding the remainder (one should never save brake fluid that comes in a plastic bottle after the seal has been broken), this makes the higher price a little easier to swallow. Amazon sells it.
8. Use Girling red brake grease to lubricate any internal brake parts that need lubrication (like the caliper pistons & seals). Use it sparingly.
9. Use air pressure to force the pistons from their calipers but BE VERY CAREFUL because they will come out with a vengeance! Also, watch out for the other garbage that will blow out of there when the piston comes out.
 
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Thanks for all of the input... a few more qustions

Thanks for all of your help, but I have a few more questions:

The 'Girling Red grease' referred to.. what is the product Id?

TigerBlue posted an image of the Castrol GTLMA synthetic but I can not find a can that lists both "synthetic" and GTLMA as shown on your can. Is your can product 12502 or 12504 or other number?

I think the Castrol labeling may have changed because it is not even on the Castrol site.

Do we use the "red grease" for assembly on all cylinder internal parts and how light?

Thanks for the suggestion of using a grease gun for piston ejection. Good pressure and no sudden blow out.

Enteredd this reply on my pad and it kept 'correcting' the name Castrol to Castro so I had to edit on the laptop. I guess it was an Android Honeycomb problem because it corrected just fine with Windows.
 
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wag123 said:
9. Use air pressure to force the pistons from their calipers but BE VERY CAREFUL because they will come out with a vengeance! Also, watch out for the other garbage that will blow out of there when the piston comes out.
Click to expand...

I think there are different and better options than air. If your system is presently working on the car. Remove the brake pads, (one wheel at a time) slowly depress the brake pedal and the pistons should come out enough, (past their 'seal' point) that you can remove them easily after you remove your calipers.
If the system is not working on the car and you're removing the master cylinder at the same time as the calipers try this. On your work bench, run a brake line from the master to the removed caliper. Work (pump) the master by hand and the (fluid) pressure will push out the pistons safely.
 
Splitting Hairs

"DO NOT SPLIT THE CALIPERS, etc". They are OK to split, BUT:
Along with the tranfer port seal, pay attention to proper re-torque and thread loctite. We also smear a coating of machinist varnish on the mating surface to prevent mother nature from crawling in there.
 
There really isn't any reason that I can think of for having to split the calipers unless they are leaking from between the halves.
 
Castrol/Girling/Lucas Rubber Red Grease

Does anyone know where to get the Rubber Red Grease in the U.S.?
 
It does seem rather elusive, however, the Lucas/Girling rebuild kits for the hydraulic systems have a packet included with the kit.
 
Red brake grease is actually very viscus brake fluid, so it won't contaminate the internal brake system hydraulics.
For the Lucas/Girling red brake grease;
http://parts.motorcarsltd.com/spider/1958/ROLLS-ROYCE/ROLLS-ROYCE/IN103091.asp
For TRW brake grease (which is supposed to be the same but isn't red in color);
http://www.englishparts.com/products/Triumph/TR4--TR4A/Brake-Grease-25g-Tube/1772420/PFG110.html
and
http://www.rdent.com/
Also, Lucas/Girling Red Brake Grease used to be carried by Volvo and could be ordered/purchased at a Volvo dealer.
 
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