Reproduction Air Cleaner Project from lee
- Thread starter leepear
- Start date
- Status
P. Scofield
Black arm band member RIP
- Messages
- 384
The cost of the aluminium ones is down to man hours.
The aluminium original copy must have some serious hours involved in it's manufacture and the price reflects that.
The one from the UK is just the same.
Less but still big hours on a machine.
It is also made by Jim Oven so it will be very good quality workmanship and materials.
I'm going to have a scratching post installed in here.
The aluminium original copy must have some serious hours involved in it's manufacture and the price reflects that.
The one from the UK is just the same.
Less but still big hours on a machine.
It is also made by Jim Oven so it will be very good quality workmanship and materials.
I'm going to have a scratching post installed in here.
And machine time wise it would have cost nothing to add. The machine has to work in that area anyway, just a matter of the quill moving up and down several extra times.
texastigert
Silver forum user
- Messages
- 59
just up and down??
XTIGERX being as your a certified machinist, and it "just a matter of up and down" please consider that these letters are raised on top of a sphereical radius to boot, would you send be a copy of your 'solid works" CNC program, so I coud use it. OH! and please send the time required that "solid works" stating how long this "up and down" machining will take. BTW, there was only four differen ball endmill used 1", 1/2, 3/8, and 1/8 plus two radius endmill. It took 5 1/2 hours to make this unit, (upper and lower) -reason so long, a super fine finish, ready to polish, not some painted unit to cover up the machine tool marks.
XTIGERX being as your a certified machinist, and it "just a matter of up and down" please consider that these letters are raised on top of a sphereical radius to boot, would you send be a copy of your 'solid works" CNC program, so I coud use it. OH! and please send the time required that "solid works" stating how long this "up and down" machining will take. BTW, there was only four differen ball endmill used 1", 1/2, 3/8, and 1/8 plus two radius endmill. It took 5 1/2 hours to make this unit, (upper and lower) -reason so long, a super fine finish, ready to polish, not some painted unit to cover up the machine tool marks.
Hey TexasT, I'll leave the expertise up to you. I was just saying there is horizontal cutting of material in that area already and for the cutter to ramp up and down leaving the lettering wouldn't add too much more time but sure it all adds up. The machine is programed to change out cutters for the proper degree of detail is it not?
I'm a worrywart type and after just 45 minutes my gut would be tied in a knot worrying that some glitch didn't happen to send the cutter straight off the part or something removing features in its path that were planned to remain and so ruining the piece causing the need to toss it and start over. I'd have to stand there the full time to keep an eye on it. I've snapped the ball end off so many 3/32" cutters, about the smallest I've used, I've lost count. I wouldn't survive 5-1/2 hours.
Excellent job though. I wasn't trying to detract from that but IIRC the lettering goes on a flat surface not "on top of a spherical radius to boot" but I don't have the item in front of me to check so I'm guessing I'm wrong and you'd know better working so hard and being so familiar with what you're working on.
I thought it might be said the lettering was left off because of concern of some kind of copy infringement. If the lettering had been included I'm sure it would look much better and more precise than the original which wouldn't be good either. Kind of like being caught between a rock and a hard place to include the lettering or not. Looks fine without them.
I'm a worrywart type and after just 45 minutes my gut would be tied in a knot worrying that some glitch didn't happen to send the cutter straight off the part or something removing features in its path that were planned to remain and so ruining the piece causing the need to toss it and start over. I'd have to stand there the full time to keep an eye on it. I've snapped the ball end off so many 3/32" cutters, about the smallest I've used, I've lost count. I wouldn't survive 5-1/2 hours.
Excellent job though. I wasn't trying to detract from that but IIRC the lettering goes on a flat surface not "on top of a spherical radius to boot" but I don't have the item in front of me to check so I'm guessing I'm wrong and you'd know better working so hard and being so familiar with what you're working on.
I thought it might be said the lettering was left off because of concern of some kind of copy infringement. If the lettering had been included I'm sure it would look much better and more precise than the original which wouldn't be good either. Kind of like being caught between a rock and a hard place to include the lettering or not. Looks fine without them.
texastigert
Silver forum user
- Messages
- 59
"raise" or not to "raise"
Justin, here is a super close up of the Lettering. Yes, the “raised” lettering is in the flat area of the housing. What I was driving at, is that these “raised” letters are on an compound radius. These letters are .100 in width and height, spacing is about .045 gap. With the tops of these letters being radiused plus not being in a straight line, creates and difficult task of programming. I do have an engraving program, but that would be grooving it instead of machining a raised letter. Notice how small the letters are compared to the needle. Needle is .032 in dia., talk about trashing a part when a 1/16 ball endmill snaps……….. I was targeting the person who wanted a “custom” unit.......
Justin, here is a super close up of the Lettering. Yes, the “raised” lettering is in the flat area of the housing. What I was driving at, is that these “raised” letters are on an compound radius. These letters are .100 in width and height, spacing is about .045 gap. With the tops of these letters being radiused plus not being in a straight line, creates and difficult task of programming. I do have an engraving program, but that would be grooving it instead of machining a raised letter. Notice how small the letters are compared to the needle. Needle is .032 in dia., talk about trashing a part when a 1/16 ball endmill snaps……….. I was targeting the person who wanted a “custom” unit.......
I understand what you're saying about the text and I agree it was a good idea to leave it off. It would be extremely difficult to replicate and the time spent would have to get tacked onto the price somewhere. Maybe a little creative sandblasting before the part was finished off could round off the sharp corners of each letter but then there is the headache of registering the piece back in the exact same position to finish it off.
I never used Solid Works myself but as you mentioned a cheap engraving program that came bundled with the machine. But like the dome and ribs the lettering would be left standing proud of the surface. The program would cut around and leave that material not cut into the surface and engrave.
I don't see the text as being a compound radius, just a simple radius. I would consider it compound if the radius text was being done on the dome. The program I used was a nightmare to do just simple radius text. What I did was use a another graphics program and lay it out there and import that into the engraving program. And then there is the problem as the text string gets radiused part of the character stroke would be wider at one end and narrower at the other rather than being a consistent width from end to end like the original which was stamped out. Take an "I" for example would be wedge shaped rather than the original rectangular. Again there is a work-around for that by adding each letter individually rotating slightly and placing it on the radius of the text line. Yeah, can't say I'm certified but I've been there and done that.
Talk about moving the cutter up and down the program I had would put in PU,PD (I thought of it as Pen, or cutter Up and Pen Down) at every opportunity adding unnecessary lines worth of code and the additional time to do it. I'd do a search thru the code for that string and do a delete all. Also had to go thru by hand and verify that the cutting path was all in the same direction so the cutter wasn't cutting a line go PU move to other end of line PD and cut back toward where it just stopped. Alway left a small blemish where the 2 lines joined. Hope you didn't have to go thru those headaches.
I never used Solid Works myself but as you mentioned a cheap engraving program that came bundled with the machine. But like the dome and ribs the lettering would be left standing proud of the surface. The program would cut around and leave that material not cut into the surface and engrave.
I don't see the text as being a compound radius, just a simple radius. I would consider it compound if the radius text was being done on the dome. The program I used was a nightmare to do just simple radius text. What I did was use a another graphics program and lay it out there and import that into the engraving program. And then there is the problem as the text string gets radiused part of the character stroke would be wider at one end and narrower at the other rather than being a consistent width from end to end like the original which was stamped out. Take an "I" for example would be wedge shaped rather than the original rectangular. Again there is a work-around for that by adding each letter individually rotating slightly and placing it on the radius of the text line. Yeah, can't say I'm certified but I've been there and done that.
Talk about moving the cutter up and down the program I had would put in PU,PD (I thought of it as Pen, or cutter Up and Pen Down) at every opportunity adding unnecessary lines worth of code and the additional time to do it. I'd do a search thru the code for that string and do a delete all. Also had to go thru by hand and verify that the cutting path was all in the same direction so the cutter wasn't cutting a line go PU move to other end of line PD and cut back toward where it just stopped. Alway left a small blemish where the 2 lines joined. Hope you didn't have to go thru those headaches.
Hi Folks: This thread has got off track a bit. The original one was to announce that I am trying to produce a stamped steel option for us. Tim is a nice guy has now produced a nice product as a good alternative to owners with modified cars or people that just like his product.
I would like to get back on track because I should be getting close to the proofs of the reproduction air cleaners. Tim clearly has costs for aluminum and machine time and deserves a reasonable return on his investment. His product is nice and his heart is in the right place. Lee
I would like to get back on track because I should be getting close to the proofs of the reproduction air cleaners. Tim clearly has costs for aluminum and machine time and deserves a reasonable return on his investment. His product is nice and his heart is in the right place. Lee
Last edited:
Warren
Gold forum user
- Messages
- 3,872
Back on Track
Should be more like like the Disney Thumper rule. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say nothing.
I had said Bruce's air cleaner with the hole in it would be good for a clock and that was harsh but he and I mix it up often.
The copyright Trolls will never come out from under the bridge on the faint footsteps any of the fiberglass or w/e model we are talking about.
Should be more like like the Disney Thumper rule. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say nothing.
I had said Bruce's air cleaner with the hole in it would be good for a clock and that was harsh but he and I mix it up often.
The copyright Trolls will never come out from under the bridge on the faint footsteps any of the fiberglass or w/e model we are talking about.
Sorry
I don't have much use for one of these things so didn't pay enough attention to pick up there were 2 similar discussions going on at the same time by different folks.
These threads are like a conversation. Sometimes they go O/T and lead to bigger and better things or they just go on and on with blinders on.
I don't have much use for one of these things so didn't pay enough attention to pick up there were 2 similar discussions going on at the same time by different folks.
These threads are like a conversation. Sometimes they go O/T and lead to bigger and better things or they just go on and on with blinders on.
- Messages
- 68
Air Cleaners...
Seems to me that texastigert's eBay listing's price for a custom aluminum CNC machined housing was not "ridiculous" or out of line... given all of the custom features and labor involved in designing and producing the end product.
My guess is that until someone can produce a sheet metal die at a reasonable cost (maybe Lee can do it?) and have the housing stamped in a large quantity (e.g. maybe 500 of them or whatever?)... there may never be an "affordable" reproduction. That is, unless someone settles for a fiberglass version (not for me... but an option).
I bought my Tigers in 1978 and 1979, respectively, in Denver, CO. Oh how I long for those days, when no one (not one single member of "CATO" aka the "Colorado Association of Tiger Owners") gave a damn whether something was original or not. All anyone seemed to care about was keeping them on the road and making them faster and more reliable. That's a big part of what made Tigers so attractive to me.
OK... I understand things are different now. The value of these cars is such that owners need to think twice about modifications, etc... and worry if their heater valves or air cleaners or a given nut or bolt are "original." But... as an "old timer" I find all of that kind of sad.
Of course, I was just 30 years old when I bought my Mark II... and 36 years have passed. Guess that makes me an old fogie longing for the good old days.
I'm lucky, both of my Tigers have original air cleaners. If they didn't... would I pay the price for the authentic ones now offered on eBay once in a while? I don't think so. So, seems to me we should be pleased about anyone's efforts to make a nice alternative available.
Copies will never be worth what the originals are going for. But, with technology what it is, maybe one day a 3D printer will kick out reproductions that (absent a magnet) look exactly like the real thing.
OK... I babble too much. Sorry.
Bill
Grand Rapids, MI
Mark II and a Mark I... plus a one owner Alpine V
Seems to me that texastigert's eBay listing's price for a custom aluminum CNC machined housing was not "ridiculous" or out of line... given all of the custom features and labor involved in designing and producing the end product.
My guess is that until someone can produce a sheet metal die at a reasonable cost (maybe Lee can do it?) and have the housing stamped in a large quantity (e.g. maybe 500 of them or whatever?)... there may never be an "affordable" reproduction. That is, unless someone settles for a fiberglass version (not for me... but an option).
I bought my Tigers in 1978 and 1979, respectively, in Denver, CO. Oh how I long for those days, when no one (not one single member of "CATO" aka the "Colorado Association of Tiger Owners") gave a damn whether something was original or not. All anyone seemed to care about was keeping them on the road and making them faster and more reliable. That's a big part of what made Tigers so attractive to me.
OK... I understand things are different now. The value of these cars is such that owners need to think twice about modifications, etc... and worry if their heater valves or air cleaners or a given nut or bolt are "original." But... as an "old timer" I find all of that kind of sad.
Of course, I was just 30 years old when I bought my Mark II... and 36 years have passed. Guess that makes me an old fogie longing for the good old days.
I'm lucky, both of my Tigers have original air cleaners. If they didn't... would I pay the price for the authentic ones now offered on eBay once in a while? I don't think so. So, seems to me we should be pleased about anyone's efforts to make a nice alternative available.
Copies will never be worth what the originals are going for. But, with technology what it is, maybe one day a 3D printer will kick out reproductions that (absent a magnet) look exactly like the real thing.
OK... I babble too much. Sorry.
Bill
Grand Rapids, MI
Mark II and a Mark I... plus a one owner Alpine V
I have one of the UK filter housings made by Jim Oven. They were intentionally made to be painted as were the old cast units. The machined area gives a key for the paint to adhere. You can paint the low lying areas to match the color of your car or engine. Mine is a nice shade of blue to match the block.
The "Tiger" font is the same as the "Sunbeam" lettering on the nose of MK1's.
The fit is perfect and it will take a range of filters, I have a 2.5" tall K&N fitted.
Lou.
The "Tiger" font is the same as the "Sunbeam" lettering on the nose of MK1's.
The fit is perfect and it will take a range of filters, I have a 2.5" tall K&N fitted.
Lou.
P. Scofield
Black arm band member RIP
- Messages
- 384
I didn't mean to sound ungrateful, but priced more reasonably, I think he could make a pretty good run of them. At this price, they will remain that price due to very low production.
P
P
Moondoggie
Gold forum user
- Messages
- 569
My two cents worth......Tim make some very nice parts and that air cleaner
is first class!! At that price it's a steal..If I tried to make something as nice here in Northern California it would be three times as much or even more.
Very very nice work TIM ...
Moondoggie
is first class!! At that price it's a steal..If I tried to make something as nice here in Northern California it would be three times as much or even more.
Very very nice work TIM ...
Moondoggie
- Status