Wanted Suggesting CAT consider repo of Mk2 grill surround

Warren said:
Thank you Captain Obvious....
No one is comparing AC housings to the low production MK2 parts.
Matter of fact is the AC housing was used on a couple other cars.
But this is about the general concept of making new parts. I've been talking with the guys on several parts.
With the closed minded attitude of low production, you could say... Don't make the early Pebble center bullet for the grill motif, Early mirror parts, or B post clamps or many other pot metal bits....
But all that said the Housings were offer to CAT first.
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I guess when you helped make the AC cleaners you were not considering getting you production costs back- what a great guy- make it for free?? your not the sharpest tool in the shed- there is a point of feasibility when making something for one car or a lot of cars- I've always wondered how much Rootes profit was on these cars being so much labor intense they are
 
The point of reproduction parts is so guys can be less afraid to drive their cars.
Nothing is stopping anybody from scanning a grille piece printing it out in plastic and then chrome plating it for example.

Jim the usual stuff around the AKA watercooler. Making sheet metal top hats that could be seen as Alger makings. I suppose anyone wishing to could be a resource. Have only seen pictures of the chrome pieces so I can't say .
 
I have reached out ot an old colegue that supports a large medical appliance company in an R&D capacity (he makes all kinds of one off things and is very good with 3D printers). My hope is to find out a company and correct procedure to do an accurate 3d scan ot good condition,Mk2 grill surround (which I believe I have found) and then test the 3d data on a large 3d printer using a hard epoxy resin. If scanning is fairly inexpensive, I might scan two different surrounds to compare 3D data. Assuming quality is good, a test fit with printed epoxy surround should be possible and the confirmation that scanned 3d data is both usable and accurate. Once we have good 3d data I assume then that would be a good starting point to reach to a vendor(s) that could possible make a die from the scanned data and most importantly provide a more accurate cost estimate to make (still unknown need for how many to make). Nothing definate, all this is new and unknow to me, but sounds like a good starting point. Any suggestions, or input always appreciated. Will keep everyone updated.

Re 'need' for a Mk2 grill surrounds I can not say for sure, but what I do know is that there are 4 Mk2's here in Colorado that I know of that do not have a correct Mk2 grill surround. Need input from anyone that needs one or would buy a spare Mk2 grill surround IF a good repo might be possible - that would be a big help.

Other repo ideas that come to mind (in additon to pebble grill bullet, interior mirror parts: metal + plastic), ? outside screw taillight lens's,, outside screw taillight housing (fyI, Rick's/SS inside screw taillight housings repo's are very good IMO), Mk2 larger washer bottle (I know a limited need, but might be easy and cheap just need to find who are making these for MG's, etc. (and I am trying to behave and not mention the Mk2 wheel well trim, oh - yikes I guess I just did but will just try to do better ongoing ...
 
PS I should have put the :) in there with the captain obvious statement Bryan sorry. We've had our banter and I'm sure we will again.

The housing project was offered to the club. There was a fiberglass version made too . We did our best to advise that we were in production to that fabricator as well. You could take the cost effective argument on most of these parts.

I know a guy with 4 or 5 MK2S. I think he's finally selling all and he's got one or two eyebrows. I will certainly pass on your for sale listing when I hear that they are sold.
 
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We dont always need the part to scan. If we can get the drawings from the archive.. Or a part to measure, some of us have the ability to 3d model them in Rhinoceros and solid works which would allow 3d printing or cnc....
 
I should note.. As always with my offers...my timr is free to the club and i dont profit on anything i do....but... Timelines may vary... It all depends when i can squeeze things in... Sadly missed a deadline for assisting with the shop notes covers recently.... šŸ˜£
 
I bought them from Classic Sunbeam Parts in NY. I returned them because the chrome quality is awful.
 
michael-king thanks and good idea re Rootes Archive, I just sent an email to the archive oo see if they may have some old production notes and/or details. Appreciate your input. How to you create a 3d model without scanning (as I have already said, a lot to learn my side for sure)?
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Michael nice of you to share parts of conversations we have had.
To quote another member profit is not a dirty word. If anyone has been to an estate sale they know first day is full price second and third days are 20% to 50%
Clearly not many are happy with eBay selling which can drive prices up with next to no protection against against shilling.

Depending on the part or your partners ya may end up working for way less than minimum wage. Then there's the guys who live in a bubble with comment like I only paid $500 dollars for the whole GD car. Guy's holding your item in their had and saying it's heavier than a real one, or placing it on the ground and saying the center pressed in part for the hold down is on a 10 degree slant. Customer service is not always fun.

Back when the club had a meeting at SEMA they showed us a parts scanner. But the idea that we had access to drawings stifled membership interest there.

I think Kragh is starting on a grass Rootes level...
Intentional mis spellun ;)
I started by asking and trying to contact all MK2 owners who would become part of the co op project. I soon gave up.

Kragh has picked up the grilles made by Chester. After somewhat of a beat down on other platform I passed on the fitment and review not having a body shell at home. Chester has a stack of cut pieces of aluminum ready to be assembled. I hope I can have his energy at 80 plus.

PS Chester also made some rocker mouldings . I have a couple left. He spent really good money making tooling that walked away from the manufacturer. Specifically a custom-made knurling tool curved to emboss the squiggly line pattern on the moldings..
 
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Warren said:
Michael nice of you to share parts of conversations we have had.
To quote another member profit is not a dirty word. If anyone has been to an estate sale they know first day is full price second and third days are 20% to 50%
Clearly not many are happy with eBay selling which can drive prices up with next to no protection against against shilling.
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Warren,

I'm just pointing out that if i offer assistance or my time i do it for free.. But that also means that it has to fit around other things which may not suit a project or other deadline for the sunbeam stuff.

And yes i have been involved in making some tnings and yes i lost money on them not even including my time.. Bit was doing it for the sake of making it happen.šŸ˜‰

My post was purely saying if i offered to help with the 3d modelling for the club it would be free.
 
@boss-tiger thr way you make a 3d computer model without scanning thr parts would be from the 2d parts design drawings in the archive... Or get a part and measure it up the old fashion way
 
I'm not currently involved in CAT leadership but have been in the past. My experience has been that CAT has constantly been looking for needed items that are not available from others. Various members have suggested parts and some have even helped arrange for their manufacturer. That really helps since we are all simply volunteers and we are always manpower limited. (I am always amused by how less than a dozen members do all the work for over 500 others). Anyway, the new side out LAT headers was just such a project - a member found a manufacturer and hooked the club up with him.

At one point CAT did look at reproducing the MK2 stainless trim, but we never found a suitable supplier. However, there certainly was a philosophical discussion back then about how much of the club's capital should be tied up in items usable by only 7% of Tigers. The lack of a manufacturer made the issue moot.

I'm sure the current CAT leadership would love to hear about manufacturers who can reproduce needed Tiger parts. Don't be afraid to pitch in.

Buck
 
There have been reproductions made of the eyebrow used on all Alpines and thru the MK 1A Tigers. They're made of stainless and they have a problem in that they don't quite conform to the contours of the grill opening as the original factory pieces do. Especially where the eyebrow starts to turn down towards the valance on each side. The originals are very flexible and will pull tight against the body contours when using original style mounting brackets. The stainless eyebrows don't have the flexibility and if tightened down to where it pulls to the body the brackets may pop out or bulge the eyebrow where the bracket sets in it. My point is that you need to use a metal that has the flexibility of the originals in order for the eyebrow to fit correctly. That info may very well be part of the original drawings. With the larger size of the MK 2 eyebrow the metal used might be even more important.
 
I agree flex may need to be considered, I will compare flex of Mk2 surround to say Ricks repo trim (which I have always thought was great). On plus for a little fles is the possibility that actual fender/grill/valance fit when our cars were originially built was probably only 'close' to begin with. I have two Sunbeams both of which in have had body repair done to the front fender/grill/valance areas which change the fitment of say a grill surround. I have helped friends more than once trim down ends of a grill surround to make it fit on car after return from a paint/body shop experience - I have also seen a ton of bondo on the top of valance shelves to make them look straight again both impact grill trim surround fit. So far, I have talked with several club members re. Mk2 grill surrounds and seems these were originally stamped out of a thin brass and I also heard that some were made out tin originally (any input, knowledge on this would be appreciated). Will keep you all posted
 
Just an opinion: I prefer to have our high-end chrome guys rework original brass/chrome for all fitment and appearance reasons. Having those aged/experience fellows available has spoiled us. In keeping with a MK II eyebrow reproduction, I have to say that it was once made by man and that ability/talent should still exist somewhere. Brass & chrome are the better product to pay for. just sayin'
 
0neoffive said:
Just an opinion: I prefer to have our high-end chrome guys rework original brass/chrome for all fitment and appearance reasons. Having those aged/experience fellows available has spoiled us. In keeping with a MK II eyebrow reproduction, I have to say that it was once made by man and that ability/talent should still exist somewhere. Brass & chrome are the better product to pay for. just sayin'
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I agree with Randy on repair and replating of originals. We used an NOS eyebrow when we restored the RHD car after LiBrandi's replated it. I still have two NOS eyebrows as well as several used ones but at their age even the NOS ones would need a replate if used. LiBrandi's have replated all of the chrome pieces on all six of our cars. They have restored the wing window bases as well as trunk hinges, mirror stalks and other parts. They look better than new with any pits being gone.
 
Can someone provide the Rootes part number for the Mk2 upper grill surround trim- I have already received email back from Andy Bye at Rootes Archive who said and all drawings filed by the part numbers (FYI, I do not have a parts book which I agree that I shoud have, I chose to just keep one of everything in a bunch of boxes scattered all over the house, basement and garage .. ). Also part numbers for Mk2 windshield washer bottle and wheel arch trim, and if it is handy, figure if I am asking for stuff might as well go big. - as always thanks all.

Re. chrome plating, I looked up LiBrandi's and found in Middleton PA ? is this who you recommend for chrome work
 
Here are most of the Rootes part numbers for the items you wanted. I did add the unique Mk. II rocker panel trim pieces as well.

2236102 Finisher-Radiator grille Mk. II
1236228 CONTAINER, Screen washer Mk. II
2236048 Moulding, O/S (R.H.)-Front wheelarch Mk. II
2236049 Moulding, N/S (L.H.)-Front wheelarch Mk. II
2236050 Moulding, O/S (R.H.)-Rear wheelarch Mk. II
2236051 Moulding, N/S (L.H.)-Rear wheelarch Mk. II
2236026 Moulding, O/S (R.H.)-Sill Mk. II
2236027 Moulding, N/S (L.H.)-Sill Mk. II

The windshield washer bottle was manufactured and supplied by Tudor.

Good Luck!
David
 
Maybe it's me drifting off topic but parts is parts:)

I took a set of detached wheel arches to my buddy Chad Everett. He's made stainless steel parts on woodies and custom vehicles hot rod fabrication. He suggested a place in the Midwest that he said could extrude a couple of pieces that he could then fashion into shape. Which happens to be the same way Brian W. said he had a eyebrow made in the past.
I contacted TEAE guys just to try and get a listing of owners for a co-operative project. I stopped there as I got tired of dealing with some owners and their, I've got mine attitude plus spares or my cars over insured I'll let them have it if something happens. It's hard selling and dealing with objections. Unless you have a product which sells itself or is the best price it's not much fun. Some guys choose to beat your item up just because... Here's a taste...
400 dollars that's more than I paid for the whole GD car.
Buyer holds a housing out at arms length and says it's heavier than a stock one. Another put the top on the ground and looks down and said the collar for the hold down is 10 degrees off. Or the Tiger email lister saying that the bottom carb flange is too short. Then there's the Norm quote that all real LAT chrome lids have a different part number. So you quickly learn the customer service rule that the customer is always right, and get used to biting your tongue...

I'm only have librarian status here but they did ask me about the side out headers. Of course it was at a meeting and I was nosing into a conversation. I think they could be great if that's your box to check. That being Stock with LAT options. If you take the % of market share argument and apply it to everything you will probably end up making nothing. So I say Bravo to the club for pulling the trigger even if I am not running a header equipped stock car. I see the mission statement of the club as promotion of the marque, brotherhood, and parts development*

Tony the seller is SunbeamAlpineTigerSpares in the UK do different spellings. On the latches again I have not seen them. And the "preferred vendor." was merely a I can't recommend them as I have no experience with them. Seems like the Alpine guys would rather re plate the original ones and beat back together with a stainless steel rod, as you have to tear them apart to re fit them. Lots of things should be made IMHO.
As for the Alger making by seller's it's not always the case. I had a car that they sliced off the entire wing so no gennie dent and Alpine firewall brace on one side....
So after a insane hunt for one a tease by one guy in a, "if you have to ask how much you can't afford it and I won't even give you a price or return your 3 calls after saying I had one available." Then, John Bailey came through with the piece, but it was a lot for a piece of vintage ferrous oxide :)Now they are reproduced by the U. K. Co. that sells the latches Tony asked about.
*In no particular order.
 
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