How much power is too much?

Forrest39

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
406
As I get down to the nitty gritty of selecting an engine for the Alpine V8, I find myself in need of advice from those with experience in fitting higher HP engines in their Tigers.

Certainly you could say that there is no such thing as too much power, but really I'm trying to figure out how much power I can realistically get to the ground. I don't see the point in having an 800 HP engine if all it does is make rear tires go up in smoke.

The reason I bring this up is that someone recently suggested to me that I find a mid 90's SVO or GT mustang with T5 and 8.8 rear axle and purchase it as a donor car. While I would like to retain the fuel injection, I doubt it would fit under the hood without profound modification. I would think that I would have to immediately fit it with a carburetor. With this configuration I would have a matched engine, trans, and rear axle (after it gets cut down), and put me somewhere in the mid to high 200HP range.

My preferred plan, though more expensive, is to get a ford racing crate motor 306 with 340HP and match it up with a T5 or TKO.
If I stick this in a car with an 8.8 rear end that has a torque arm and 205/55/15 tires, is this realistic or am I still in the ridiculous smoke-generator realm?

Thanks for all advice, -Kevin
 

66TigerMK1A

Gold forum user
Messages
1,130
I have about 400 hp with a z-spec T5 and it's very 'drivable'...
I think one of the reasons is that the 'roller' motors can make that kind of hp and still act pretty civilized unless you really get on the throttle . An old school motor had to be pretty radical to do that !!
Here's a pic of an Alger that has a nice H.O. setup...

Jim
B382000446
 

Forrest39

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
406
Thanks Jim,
With your 400HP setup, did you fit a torque arm to the rear axle or some other means to manage axle-hop or wind-up? Also, what size tires did you go with?
Cheers, -Kevin
 

0neoffive

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
2,867
HP & Torque Limits ??

Generally speaking, when the RH headlight tweaks closer to the ground than the left, back off the power a smidgen . . . . . . . .;)
 

66TigerMK1A

Gold forum user
Messages
1,130
The car already had weld-on Traction Masters and they seem O.K. for wheel hop...I can seriously smoke the tires in 1st or 2nd and no wheel hop... The car had some 'old school' autocross mods when I bought it like the rear main leaf was 'flipped' but I've changed that and modified them to get an acceptable ride...
I've heard good things about the torque arm but never driven a car with one. I had a set of 'Dales' springs that I picked up at a Tigers United ( to save the frieght ) and they have an extra 'half' leaf forward.... installed them on my buddy's 347 Tiger that just got on the road a few weeks ago and they work great so far!

The car was fitted with 14" Epsilon ( 7" & 8" ) 3 piece wheels which are pretty much unobtainium nowadays ... 245/50-14" BFG rear ( from Coker ) and 215/60-14" BFG front ( car has subtle flares to make it all fit ) It's tight but I have 11" discs all around with 4 piston Wilwood calipers on the front.
 

Duke Mk1a

Gold forum user
Messages
1,673
Take a look at this album - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1255824721370.2034409.1402147496&type=1&l=8f4d128016

The 347 makes 456 HP (386 RWHP). The car is very driveable and can be as gentle as a 260 powered Tiger. All depends on the right foot. I have the Dale A rear springs and the Dan W. Torque Arm, no panhard rod. I get wheels spin, no wheel hop at all.

Yes, under full throttle it is brutal as hell......but not possible to have more fun with clothes on. I run Toyo DOT-R compound tires for traction on 15" wheels. You will have to have sticky tires for sure.

Just buy the engine I posted below and never look back. Don't be scared.
 
Last edited:

Forrest39

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
406
The car already had weld-on Traction Masters and they seem O.K. for wheel hop...I can seriously smoke the tires in 1st or 2nd and no wheel hop... The car had some 'old school' autocross mods when I bought it like the rear main leaf was 'flipped' but I've changed that and modified them to get an acceptable ride...
I've heard good things about the torque arm but never driven a car with one. I had a set of 'Dales' springs that I picked up at a Tigers United ( to save the frieght ) and they have an extra 'half' leaf forward.... installed them on my buddy's 347 Tiger that just got on the road a few weeks ago and they work great so far!

The car was fitted with 14" Epsilon ( 7" & 8" ) 3 piece wheels which are pretty much unobtainium nowadays ... 245/50-14" BFG rear ( from Coker ) and 215/60-14" BFG front ( car has subtle flares to make it all fit ) It's tight but I have 11" discs all around with 4 piston Wilwood calipers on the front.

Very not shabby! Thanks for the info,
-Kevin
 

cobrakidz

Gold forum user
Messages
2,289
I think a lot depends on your driving habits. My last Tiger had 326 RWHP and it was great to drive---tame enough for the average person and powerful enough for the aggressive driver. It had a 5 speed and locker rear end to handle the power.
 

cobrakidz

Gold forum user
Messages
2,289
The car was fitted with 14" Epsilon ( 7" & 8" ) 3 piece wheels which are pretty much unobtainium nowadays ... 245/50-14" BFG rear ( from Coker ) and 215/60-14" BFG front ( car has subtle flares to make it all fit ) It's tight but I have 11" discs all around with 4 piston Wilwood calipers on the front.

By the looks of that ad they must have been from the 80's. Good looking wheel--painted black sure changes their appearance. Have you ever looked for a "spare" wheel just in case?
 

66TigerMK1A

Gold forum user
Messages
1,130
By the looks of that ad they must have been from the 80's. Good looking wheel--painted black sure changes their appearance. Have you ever looked for a "spare" wheel just in case?
Yep... I have a receipt from a P.O. for $1000 just for the wheels dated 1982 ! For reference, I think I bought some Carroll Shelby 'mini' europa's about the same time for about $60 each !
I blasted the black paint off the centers a couple of years ago to prep for powder coating and they were anodized gold underneath... would be an interesting look on a black or dark color car I think...
The wheels are also marketed as 'Southern Ways' and I've looked around a LOT for spares... found some with 240Z pattern and others but have never found any 14's or 15's with 4 X 4 1/4" pattern

Back to the motor / trans options, if it was me, Id save the money from going to a 'huge' motor and invest it in a 5 speed... I think the Mustang one you are considering is the wrong choice though. It has a 3.35 1st gear and .68 o.d. No matter what you use for rear gears, either 1st or 5th will not be right as there's such a big spread. I bought a z-spec that has 2.95 1st and I changed the o.d. to .73 ( from .63 )... up until recently it was a steal @ $1295 brand new! Now it's $1695 but still cheaper than a TKO

My combo, to be 'perfect' IMHO could use a little 'less' 1st gear ( GREAT for burnouts , lol ) and a little 'more' o.d. so if I ever re-do the rear end I will take out the 3.54's and put in either a 3.31 or 3.23 if I can find one!

Good luck in your quest for the 'right' combination
 

Forrest39

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
406
Back to the motor / trans options, if it was me, Id save the money from going to a 'huge' motor and invest it in a 5 speed... I think the Mustang one you are considering is the wrong choice though. It has a 3.35 1st gear and .68 o.d. No matter what you use for rear gears, either 1st or 5th will not be right as there's such a big spread. I bought a z-spec that has 2.95 1st and I changed the o.d. to .73 ( from .63 )... up until recently it was a steal @ $1295 brand new! Now it's $1695 but still cheaper than a TKO

My combo, to be 'perfect' IMHO could use a little 'less' 1st gear ( GREAT for burnouts , lol ) and a little 'more' o.d. so if I ever re-do the rear end I will take out the 3.54's and put in either a 3.31 or 3.23 if I can find one!


That's one of the things I am concerned about. I looked at the z-spec t5 or the TKO 600 with 2.87 and .64 with a 3.55 rear end and 15" wheels. With that setup the calculator spits out 2400 RPM at 75mph which is a realistic cruise speed.
Then there's the issue of what wheels to use, what size do I cut the rear axle to, and what do I ultimately use for a front end. Still a number of unknowns
-Kevin
 

1fineAlpine

Silver forum user
Messages
76
I spent a summer a few years ago driving a 1990 convertable fox body mustang gt I tried to buy, that was semi hopped up and had the stock T5 in it. That thing had 20" wheels on it and all it did was cook the tires in 1st gear no matter how easy you tried to take off. Taking off in 2nd required slipping the clutch and still got some tire spin but not much. My motor for my Alpine came from a 1987 Lincoln LSC. I pulled the E6 heads off it, and had valve reliefs cut into the pistons for my aluminum heads. With what cam, intake, and a couple other things I'm doing to it (I pulled the fuel injection setup off it) it should be about 400hp. I'm having a hard time finding a T5 that's in my budget at the moment, but otherwise should be a good setup. I'm only comparing this to the fox body since I've never driven a Sunbeam.
 

Duke Mk1a

Gold forum user
Messages
1,673
That thing had 20" wheels on it and all it did was cook the tires in 1st gear no matter how easy you tried to take off. Taking off in 2nd required slipping the clutch and still got some tire spin but not much.

100% sure it had cheap high tread ware tires on it. 1990 Mustang only had 225 HP, even "hopped up", not that much more HP.


I'm only comparing this to the fox body since I've never driven a Sunbeam.

The F body is ~700 lbs heavier.
 

1fineAlpine

Silver forum user
Messages
76
Yes I'm sure the cheap tires didn't help at all, and yup it was the 225hp motor and was prob putting out around 250, but it was still pretty fun. It also had 3.93 gears. I've driven 2 Cobra mustangs, one with 550hp, and the other with 627hp dynoed to the rear tires, and a few other rigs over 500hp, and I'm actually kinda worried my Alpine will be a beast to handle. How do they do? Do the rear ends try to pass the front? The 627hp Cobra would kick sideways when you punched it in 3rd gear going 55mph no prob, and got kinda squirrelly at times. I'm worried the Alpine might do the same with 360+ rwhp being such a small car? I'm still doing my hopped up motor either way though... :D
 
Last edited:

chirodoc

Gold forum user
Messages
281
HOW MUCH POWER

I have a modified HiPo 289 with a 3:53 positraction. I have the original weld on Traction bars which tore loose from the crossmember autocrossing. Many years ago, CAT springs which eliminated the big rubber front bushing, were said to stop the wheel hop, but still part throttle in 1st gear resulted in severe wheel hop. After installing Dale's torque arm, I can dump the clutch at 4000 rpm with no wheel hop. It also takes the abuse away from the front spring hanger when the spring violently wraps up under hard acceleration-deceleration. Now I can handle more power like a FPP 363 stroker!
Some members have had good success with CAL TRACs. On an internet a HEMI web site shows how to custom fabricate them for your application.
 

Duke Mk1a

Gold forum user
Messages
1,673
My car handles it well. With the torque arm, Dale A springs, CAT edelbrock shocks and Toyo 888 tires the rear is predictable. Have RX7 rear disk brakes and Wildwood up front. You have to respect the power and use it with caution. Flagerant application of the right pedal will kill you. The only way a Tiger should be.
 

CT Tiger

Silver forum user
Messages
101
I used to build V 8 pintos for folks , so on a dare I built a pinto with a mid mounted 351 cleveland , pushing about 450 HP . It was nothing more than a giant smoke bomb. That thing would burn the tires at 60 mph just by goosing the gas , lost a lot of races with it because by the time I actually had traction the other guy was in 3rd gear ...But nobody beat me at eating tires !
Long story short ...too much power in too light of a car .
 

Forrest39

Gold forum user
CAT Member
Messages
406
I used to build V 8 pintos for folks , so on a dare I built a pinto with a mid mounted 351 cleveland , pushing about 450 HP . It was nothing more than a giant smoke bomb. That thing would burn the tires at 60 mph just by goosing the gas , lost a lot of races with it because by the time I actually had traction the other guy was in 3rd gear ...But nobody beat me at eating tires !
Long story short ...too much power in too light of a car .

This is exactly my concern. But sounds like the 340hp 350ft/# torque crate motor is a pretty safe bet.
Cheers, -Kevin
 
Top