correct radiator cap
- Thread starter SIV Allan
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cap
Hi Allan, I believe it's this one:
http://www.cjponyparts.com/radiator-cap-smco-zinc-1964-1966/p/RC2/
If the car came with the chrome dress up kit it had the same cap in a chrome version seen here:
http://www.cjponyparts.com/radiator-cap-smco-chrome-1964-1966/p/RC1/
regards
Bob
Hi Allan, I believe it's this one:
http://www.cjponyparts.com/radiator-cap-smco-zinc-1964-1966/p/RC2/
If the car came with the chrome dress up kit it had the same cap in a chrome version seen here:
http://www.cjponyparts.com/radiator-cap-smco-chrome-1964-1966/p/RC1/
regards
Bob
cadreamn67
Platinum Forum Member
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Hi Allan and Bob,
If this is a concours correct type question, I cannot be a lot of help, since I do not really compete in that catagory. However, I am somewhat interested/curious about such things, like most people.
I notice that the caps Bob has located are 14 lb caps. FWIW, a quick look at the shop manual confirmed my recollection that factory says the cap should be a 13 lb. cap. I do not know if that is something concours judges would pick up on or not, but thought it was worth mentioning.
On the side subject of appropriate pressure limit, I think there are some posts on here that talk about using something like a 7 lb rated cap. As is pretty well known, something like that is what the Alpine used. The heater core is also designed to withstand pressures less than the 13 lb level. So over time it is prone to end cap bowing/separation and leakage when the pressure is 13 lb. If you look at the difference in coolant boiling point between 7 lbs. of pressure and 13 lbs., the additional pressure does not give you a lot additional safety margin. I recall reading that people have been successful using a 7 lb. rated cap with no cooling problems. And thus not having heater core stress/leakage problems. I myself have to date stayed with a 13 lb cap but my heater core has been rebuilt and reinforced. All comments in the FWIW category, probably off topic and way more info than you were seeking.
Anyway, since this is a quiet Sunday afternoon, I could not help getting out my old "Performance Tuning the Sunbeam Tiger" book. (If my car was back together, I would be out driving..) There is a picture of a supposedly stock engine compartment on page 131. Using the old magnifying glass, you can get a pretty good look at the radiator cap. As I see it, the cap in that picture looks very very close to the ones BOB has identified. The wording looks the same but the arrows through the lettering leave a lot larger gaps of plain metal in the cap ear area. Is this truly a factory cap? I cannot say. Maybe someone else with more extensive picture resources could help. If that indeed is what the correct cap question is all about...!
Gene
If this is a concours correct type question, I cannot be a lot of help, since I do not really compete in that catagory. However, I am somewhat interested/curious about such things, like most people.
I notice that the caps Bob has located are 14 lb caps. FWIW, a quick look at the shop manual confirmed my recollection that factory says the cap should be a 13 lb. cap. I do not know if that is something concours judges would pick up on or not, but thought it was worth mentioning.
On the side subject of appropriate pressure limit, I think there are some posts on here that talk about using something like a 7 lb rated cap. As is pretty well known, something like that is what the Alpine used. The heater core is also designed to withstand pressures less than the 13 lb level. So over time it is prone to end cap bowing/separation and leakage when the pressure is 13 lb. If you look at the difference in coolant boiling point between 7 lbs. of pressure and 13 lbs., the additional pressure does not give you a lot additional safety margin. I recall reading that people have been successful using a 7 lb. rated cap with no cooling problems. And thus not having heater core stress/leakage problems. I myself have to date stayed with a 13 lb cap but my heater core has been rebuilt and reinforced. All comments in the FWIW category, probably off topic and way more info than you were seeking.
Anyway, since this is a quiet Sunday afternoon, I could not help getting out my old "Performance Tuning the Sunbeam Tiger" book. (If my car was back together, I would be out driving..) There is a picture of a supposedly stock engine compartment on page 131. Using the old magnifying glass, you can get a pretty good look at the radiator cap. As I see it, the cap in that picture looks very very close to the ones BOB has identified. The wording looks the same but the arrows through the lettering leave a lot larger gaps of plain metal in the cap ear area. Is this truly a factory cap? I cannot say. Maybe someone else with more extensive picture resources could help. If that indeed is what the correct cap question is all about...!
Gene
Warren
Gold forum user
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Bulge
I just talked with another Tiger owner today. He just replaced his radiator with a Aluminium one and did not have the heater core inspected or add a Gano filter.
All the Ford engines I have ever had give up lots of bits of cast iron. When I got mine back from the only radiator shop I could find in LA I could actually feel the weight difference. The shop guy said it was nearly 70 to 80% clogged with bits o iron. The bulging is most likely guys using a higher pressure cap with clogged cores, heater and radiator.
I would skip the heater core all together if I was not going to clean both at same time. For me its kinda like changing oil and not changing the filter.
Old memories from Auto Shop,
What is that old formula?, For every # of pressure in system you can add 3 degrees to the boil over point. So one lb. less cap is insignificant.
When your car starts to overheat put on the heater to add extra cooling surface to the motor.
I just talked with another Tiger owner today. He just replaced his radiator with a Aluminium one and did not have the heater core inspected or add a Gano filter.
All the Ford engines I have ever had give up lots of bits of cast iron. When I got mine back from the only radiator shop I could find in LA I could actually feel the weight difference. The shop guy said it was nearly 70 to 80% clogged with bits o iron. The bulging is most likely guys using a higher pressure cap with clogged cores, heater and radiator.
I would skip the heater core all together if I was not going to clean both at same time. For me its kinda like changing oil and not changing the filter.
Old memories from Auto Shop,
What is that old formula?, For every # of pressure in system you can add 3 degrees to the boil over point. So one lb. less cap is insignificant.
When your car starts to overheat put on the heater to add extra cooling surface to the motor.
cadreamn67
Platinum Forum Member
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Warren,
You completely missed a couple of my points.
Presumably you have some basis for stating, (other than simply superior intuitive intellect) in contradiction to my post that the heater core bulging is "most likely" actually due to the cause you have stated. If so, perhaps you should write a correction/rebuttal to Page R4 of the CAT Shop Notes for the forthcoming update and revision. An opportunity to make a contribution that avoids the perpetuation of bad information.
If you reread my post you will see that the point about 13 vs 14 lb. pressure release point on the cap was totally in the context of possibly not being concours correct. The point was being made in case concours correct was part of the context for Allan's question. There was absolutely no discussion as to a functionality difference.
If I accept for the moment your memory of shop class and the 3 degree per pound pressure increase, a 7 lb. cap would raise the boiling point by 21 degrees. If pure water boils at approximately 212 degrees F., such a cap would raise the boiling point to 233 degrees. SBF's are said to run best at around 195 degrees F (almost 40 degrees F less). If so, and one has a properly running motor, the suggestion is that a 7 lb. cap is quite adequate for the tiger motor. Additionally it would be less stressful on a heater core designed to operate under such a pressure level (not almost twice as much).
Gene
Warren
Gold forum user
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13 vs 14 sidebar
How much does the pressure raise the boiling point? Well, it’s about 2-3 degrees for every psi that we increase the pressure of the system. Therefore, by using a 1.1 bar cap we make the average boiling point of a stock cooling system somewhere closer to around 257-260 degrees.
From
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog...at-advantage-of-a-high-pressure-radiator-cap/
Gene, maybe most likely should have been "a bunch of the time", with a your results may vary thrown in. The old blocks do give up a lot of rust and cast iron especially if left to sit with weak fluid. I only brought it up as I have seen it ignored too much by my friends that should know better. It is really popular to bash the car with its history while ignoring the obvious.
I agree with the math the temps, and can remember having 8lb caps in my old cars. Never really had hot rods but beach cruiser drop top cars that drank tap water and coolant. The practice of adding a higher pressure cap to a system when it didn't really need it as there were other problems, as it is much easier to add band aids with a higher cap or a fan or otherwise complain about the cars history of overheating.
Yes, I will should have stayed blocks away from the concours 13 vs 14 lb discussion. I would be a poor judge only penalizing the ones with the red levers. 1000 pardons for the sidebar to you all's thread.
The creator of the Gano filter would have not sold very many if the problem did not exist. I am sure having a visible one on a car would get a deduction in points.
And yes, maybe the shop notes should say did you clean the core when you did your radiator. Or maybe some engineer type could calculate the increased cooling area when you turn the heater on.
I do not have superior intuitive intellect just from a family who drove pick ups and old cars and had to deal with their problems. I am sure many of the younger crowd did not have the advantage of going to auto shop and learning stuff that would clog and pollute the brain later in life. I did read a lot of Tiger archive e mail postings that cite the dangers of adding a higher pressure cap and the bulging of the heater core. I do not know if that is in the shop notes cause I do not own one, Dave are you done yet?
How much does the pressure raise the boiling point? Well, it’s about 2-3 degrees for every psi that we increase the pressure of the system. Therefore, by using a 1.1 bar cap we make the average boiling point of a stock cooling system somewhere closer to around 257-260 degrees.
From
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog...at-advantage-of-a-high-pressure-radiator-cap/
Gene, maybe most likely should have been "a bunch of the time", with a your results may vary thrown in. The old blocks do give up a lot of rust and cast iron especially if left to sit with weak fluid. I only brought it up as I have seen it ignored too much by my friends that should know better. It is really popular to bash the car with its history while ignoring the obvious.
I agree with the math the temps, and can remember having 8lb caps in my old cars. Never really had hot rods but beach cruiser drop top cars that drank tap water and coolant. The practice of adding a higher pressure cap to a system when it didn't really need it as there were other problems, as it is much easier to add band aids with a higher cap or a fan or otherwise complain about the cars history of overheating.
Yes, I will should have stayed blocks away from the concours 13 vs 14 lb discussion. I would be a poor judge only penalizing the ones with the red levers. 1000 pardons for the sidebar to you all's thread.
The creator of the Gano filter would have not sold very many if the problem did not exist. I am sure having a visible one on a car would get a deduction in points.
And yes, maybe the shop notes should say did you clean the core when you did your radiator. Or maybe some engineer type could calculate the increased cooling area when you turn the heater on.
I do not have superior intuitive intellect just from a family who drove pick ups and old cars and had to deal with their problems. I am sure many of the younger crowd did not have the advantage of going to auto shop and learning stuff that would clog and pollute the brain later in life. I did read a lot of Tiger archive e mail postings that cite the dangers of adding a higher pressure cap and the bulging of the heater core. I do not know if that is in the shop notes cause I do not own one, Dave are you done yet?
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Thanks folks,
I noticed that cap at Summit as well: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk-c5zz-8100-ac?seid=srese1&gclid=CIPC7KCEtrcCFWcV7Aodi34AQQ
My car is not a "100 points Tiger" but I pay attention to factory and dealer detail as much as I can.
Currently I'm looking at the engine's "dress up" kit. Both pieces of the engine's air cleaner are chrome so, to be correct, the lower one would need to be painted hammer tone grey (I think). The dip stick handle is ok but the "bell" is not chromed - no idea on that one. At least the oil breather cap is ok
.
Thanks again,
Allan Ballard
Mk1a
I noticed that cap at Summit as well: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk-c5zz-8100-ac?seid=srese1&gclid=CIPC7KCEtrcCFWcV7Aodi34AQQ
My car is not a "100 points Tiger" but I pay attention to factory and dealer detail as much as I can.
Currently I'm looking at the engine's "dress up" kit. Both pieces of the engine's air cleaner are chrome so, to be correct, the lower one would need to be painted hammer tone grey (I think). The dip stick handle is ok but the "bell" is not chromed - no idea on that one. At least the oil breather cap is ok
.Thanks again,
Allan Ballard
Mk1a
cadreamn67
Platinum Forum Member
- Messages
- 608
Warren,
I am cool with all that.
Peace,
Gene
I am cool with all that.
Peace,
Gene
- Messages
- 4,326
Currently I'm looking at the engine's "dress up" kit. Both pieces of the engine's air cleaner are chrome so, to be correct, the lower one would need to be painted hammer tone grey (I think). The dip stick handle is ok but the "bell" is not chromed - no idea on that one. At least the oil breather cap is ok
Thanks again,
Allan Ballard
Mk1a
Allan you are right, the bottom of the housing was still the hammer finish. The dress up kit was an all or nothing.. they gave you all the chrome bits.
I always wondered what the deal with that was on the air filter housing. If you went to a dealer after buying the car and said "i want to buy the dress up kit" did they give you a whole new air filter housing? did they give you a new chromed top housing? Did they exchange your top housing?
Just seems odd that only 1 part had the chrome finish from a kit of parts point of view as you assume this was all being done in the states using the parts supplied by Rootes UK. All the other parts were USA sourced bar the filter housing but the chrome on it would have been stateside... so is there a big stash of NOS filter housing bases out there somewhere???