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DCTiger

DCTiger

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Second weekend trying to start rebuilt engine. 260 w/hipo cam, mechanical lifters and dual pt distributor w/no vacuum advance.

Has fuel, carb squirts and in bowel.

Has spark, straight off ignition coil.

wires are in correct order on cap.

Engine cranks, but doesn't start. Believe that distributor is timed to TDC on power stroke for cyl #1.

Should distributor be advanced 10 deg, I seem to recall paperwork that came with distributor, but can't find?

Any suggestions?

Thxs,
 
10 Degrees is Right, per Book

I could not find any chart for the timing advance in my How to Rebuild Your SMALL-BLOCK FORD book by Tom Monroe. However, the book does say "Now that your distributor is in place, you can come fairly close to correct timing before the engine is run by statically timing it. To do this, turn the crank so the pointer and crank damper indicate the correct distributor advance - 10 degrees BTDC, for example."

The Rootes workshop manual lists 6 degrees BTDC for both 260 and 289 engines, but nothing for dual-point distributors.

Note that Monroe's book gives 0.020" gap setting for the points on a HP289 or Boss 302 dual-point distributor, instead of the 0.015" shown in the Rootes workshop manual.

Also, I found this website that lists the timing for "K" engines (HP289) to be 12 degrees. http://www.thecarsource.com/fords/engines/289engine.shtml

It also indicates the spark plug gap (for Autolite BF-42 plugs) should be 0.028" - 0.032" for "K" engines, while 0.032" - 0.036" for the rest of the engines.

I know this is basics, but some cam suppliers sell the same cam for both 260/289 engines and 351 engines, but the timing order is different.

Good luck!
 
Bring the balancer to TDC at the timing mark. Pop the cap and make sure the rotor is pointed at the wire going to #1 cylinder. Even if it's 180 deg off, it should spit or pop at least.

Have you pulled a plug and stuck it in a wire, with the plug body grounded, to make sure you have spark at the plug?

As long as you do those two thing and have fuel it should fire.
 
Make sure you are at the top of the compression stroke for #1 cylinder.
Years ago after rebuilding an engine I kept trying but eventually figured out I was at the top of the exhaust stroke.
 
Also Ford used 3 different timing mark locations on the damper assy.. if you replaced it with a new one are the marks in the right location.. Some are marked for a pointer on the right side and some are marked for the pointer on the left side.. The damper assy I got for my 302 had 3 sets of timing marks on it..
 
DC Tiger/Robert,

If you are still having problems - It might be time to give us more information about what is happening so the problem can be narrowed down.

To say the "engine cranks but does not start" is not enough info. Does it try to start? is it catching at all? Is it backfiring through the carb?
This kind of information will help narrow it down - Spark problem, ignition time problem, valve adjustment problem, fuel problem, firing order problem, spark plug gapping problem - these will all have different symptoms with the end result of the engine not starting.

John
 
Waiting for next opportunity to provide update

All,

Life is getting in the way of troubleshooting. What I have done so far.

Verified fuel to carb: fuel filter pumps as soon as ignition on. see thru filter prior to carb has gas. carb squirts when pump pedal. opened up screw on bowl to verify float working.

Verified spark from ignition coil: need to verify spark at plugs to rule out dist cap and rotor.

I have verified tdc on #1 cyl by pulling plug and cycling thru and at end of air pushing (instead of sucking) at spark plug opening the rotor is set at #1. At that point I have set gap.

I have yet to move distributor to +/- TDC, but I figured it should ignite at least first and then move distributor for best engine performance.

I am not getting detonation, just cranking.

I have double checked spark plug wire routing as well as firing rotation on cap.

When I get first opportunity I will verify wires are all seated on the spark plugs and verify spark to them.

All parts on rebuilt engine are new, including electrical.

Distributor is from Tim O'Connor.

Thanks and sorry news is slow,
 
Followed Monroe's Book

BTW used Monroe's "How to rebuild small block Ford" as guide when I rebuilt engine.
 
Some Other Info

Rob

If you recall, the carb did seem to sputter and you did get a few backfires through the carb.

Jim
 
When I have run (or had friends that have) into issue -

Get a can of Starting Fluid, hit the carb with it, crank, and if you get no fire in the cylinders the look for something like a bad rotor or cap. Check the center electrode in the cap to ensure it's contacting the rotor and not missing or broken off. Double check points setup and condenser.

Quickstart (starting fluid) will light up most anything so if you don't get at least a backfire or something like that suspect electrical.

As you said check the spark at the plug with a spare plug or pull one, crank and verify spark at the plug. If no spark at the plug this is a good start in finding the issue.

Look at the timing diagram and re-verify plug wiring/firing order. NOTE their exists 2 firing orders for SBF, depending if you use a later model camshaft, i.e. 5.0, 351W are different then the 'old school' sbf. I think you posted the link to the cam, that should tell if old or new order.

It likely something simple, but often the simple thing is the hardest to fine :)

Sandy
 
VaCat33 said:
Rob

If you recall, the carb did seem to sputter and you did get a few backfires through the carb.

Jim
Click to expand...

Then you probably have spark and fuel. Timing and/or firing order are probably the issue. Did you do any work to the heads? If so, how did you set the rocker arms for the pre-fire valve adjustment?

Sandy's suggestion for using starting fluid is a good idea if your concern is about getting adequate fuel.

John
 
Sure sounds like a timing issue. Distributor install, timing gear mis-install.

Good luck and waiting for a sound clip of it running!
 
distributor turning

Is the distributor turning ? Maybe you should static time engine- chk proper level of compression ,valves tight ? Static time-#1 on compression stroke/verify distributor rotor is at number 1 on distributor cap,put cap back on slightly turn dist just at rotor and verify spark on cylinder 1 as you rotate distributor by hand see spark may go slightly advanced which should be counter clockwise as distributor should be rotating clockwise when cranking with starter,try to start if backfires probably 180 degrees out,good luck
 
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Verified spark at the plugs.

Also noticed that most cars have cyl #1 at the top of the distributor, so rotated the distro to get more rotation for cw/ccw rotation for timing.

Used the suggestion of the starting fluid and she fired right up, but was really rough, rotated distro ccw to get it a little smoother and rpms down.

The engine was really rough, either backfire or missing. No flames coming out, but a lot of fuel mist and almost a rhythmic sputter.

Checked to see if all the wires were on the spark plugs and that did not do anything, thought that one piston may not have been firing.

Engine was running roughly on its own without needing fuel pedal and was around the 1500-2000 range.

Was then going to record engine running and put it on this post to let you help diagnose, but then went back to original situation where it was cranking and not turning over.

Tried bumping distro ccw to bump up rpms but engine would not fire, even with another shot of fluid.

WTF? :confused:
 
Timing issue.

Try both firing order setups.

ford-260-289-302-firing-order.jpg


ford-302HO-351W-firing-order.jpg
 
Are plugs 1/2 or 3/4

Could you have wrong length plugs for heads......are heads stock or aluminum?
 
Stock Heads

Heads are stock, but tapped for the screw in studs and heavier springs.

And Duke, I will try the new order. Seems weird since engine is stock 260 with hipo cam. I thought Hipo was still same firing order?

Thxs,
 
The cam specs look like it says it's a copy of the mechanical ford cam so firing order should be the stock early firing order... Nice pics Duke :).

How hard is it to pull the valve covers and double check the valve lash if you already haven't?

About the only other think that I might suspect is intake gasket but that might be a stretch.

If you got it running (at least rough) get it back to where that can be repeated. Make small changes from that point, moving the distributor a little can make a lot of change so if you can get it back to at least sputtering along, get a timing light and get that out of the mix.


Sandy
 
Have you verified that you have the rotor at #1 plug wire at the top of the compression stroke? Remember that the timing mark also lines up with the the marks on the harmonic balancer at the top of the exhaust stroke.
A V8 engine can run like you are describing when it is 180 degrees out.
The best way to check is pull the valve cover to reveal #1 cylinder, crank the engine by hand or bump it over and watch the #1 valves. You want to see the intake open and close and then a lag for the compression stroke as it gets near TDC. Rotor should now be where your #1 spark plug wire is connected.
 
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